RBPitboss #2 Athlete4life10 & Kalin

[athlete4life10]

Ummm...Korea and us appear to have open borders? Did I miss some type of communication here? Can you shed any light on that Kalin? Thanks .

[athlete4life10]

Also it appears at one point Korea declared on Rome...hmm...of course you already know all this but I'll ask Rome for a story.

[Shoot the Moon]

I would like to ask the lurkers for advice here, but I am pretty sure that this move is legal. Rego himself, I think, used it against Exploit.

My understanding is that Rego did wait the required time, and Exploit just never got to it during that time.

What you are planning, to me, is pretty clearly a double move. I think the issue is that some double moves (especially in the early game where your just moving an exploring warrior) have been overlooked and even encouraged to speed up the game because there's no one that really would object to them happening. What you are planning is much more questionable in my mind. If it is not against the letter of the rule, it is certainly about as close you can get to breaking the rule while still barely not doing it.

[Rowain]

Your planned move is within the rules. IIRC the RB-team used it in the Apolyton-game too. As long as you are not in war you are free to move.
As you spotted the wait-period after a war-declaration has been removed on purpose.
It is of course a very shady move and will incite some debates but from the Rules themself it is allowed.

[Jabah]

I think that move while maybe legal is far from the 'act in good faith' rule.
I was happier with your idea of using a road to attack (in 1t) from a hidding place. (not sure you have time for all this roading and of course, they will see the worker).

I also would not whip a charriot from scratch (if that was your question), even if you can, it should be a wasting of (hammer) ressources

[athlete4life10]

Kalin,

I can play the turn 100% sometime shortly after noon. So we won't have to hold up the turn at all today . Unless you see something that we really need to discuss.

[newbie]

- Maybe you can send a (deceitful) email regarding your enthusiasm for religion spread. As a good faith gesture while you negotiate the substance of the compensation. Since they have Buddhism (meditation) this could hopefully encourage them to be putting hammers into monastary/missionary rather than units. Not sure of the maths on the attack date, but an ETA for the missionary would give intel on whether you can capture a prebuilt monastery. It would be a nice stroke of luck if they could whip the monastery for you just before the war, with the nice side-benefit of reducing pop available for whipping units!!!
- Maybe you could discuss future great people trades. Perhaps you would like a Great Scientist for your academy or something like that as the compensation for their aggressive city placement. (Not since you are genuinely interested in the deal, but really to gain intel on whether or not they are going for the UU lightbulbing beeline and what progress they are making if they are... And such an expensive compensation proposition could sufficiently prolong negotiations while you prepare your attack...)
- And a (decitful) email regarding setting up trade routes. As cover for roading to their city. Perhaps you can even get their help roading towards them.
- Hopefully these 'friendly overtures' will lull them into a false sense of security as a good bonus. But if it sounds a bit over-friendly, they might see right through the less plausible bits...
- Can they see that you have horses on the trade screen? If not then maybe you want to avoid sending any exploring workboats in their direction for now...
- Was your suggestion of units as compensation in good faith? Or so that you can deplete their army and use their units in your attack?
- Growing your city then whipping the bulk of your army at the last minute (rather than slow-building) seems like the way to disguise your military might till the last minute. And producing warriors then upgrading to axe/spear with gold (if you can settle/trade metal) at the last minute is another way (although seems like you're planning on 2-movers for the attack. But the one movers might be able to catch up quickly enough for defence). Do you have trade routes (or can you get them soon) with a civ who has metals and will trade?

[newbie]

On second thoughts, 'lets build a joint trade route so that we can road towards you' is probably the one easiest deceit to see through. I think it would stick out like a sore thumb as a rather sudden deviation of tone from recent messages, and the aggressive possibilities are too obvious...

[kalin]

Hi Athlete,

Quick answers here as today shapes up busier than usual.

Sigh, I missed that we won't be able to whip. I guess we can only attack with 4 chars on T58. We can also try to attack with 3 on T57, then have a second wave on T58. Very unsure about the best way to proceed here.

So what's the plan for T52?
Settler moves to hill.
Dice's movement is mapped out.
Ellorrs should probably go 2x NW dependant upon Rome's road network.
Momaw Nadon?
Bo Shek?

Yes to settler. Momaw I think would be part of the attack. For new city, I was thinking that instead of a chariot it may build warriors. We need them and a chariot takes 6T plus another 3-4(?) to get in position which is probably too much. I now regret a bit not sending the warrior by the settler towards Paris. We can still try, but can it arrive in time? The others I am not sure, we'll need to check in game. If you get to play before we can talk more, just make the decisions, I trust you This lack of time is unfortunate, I wish we could do 3000 simulations but... oh well.

Owen go to the spot to road? Byzantine will see that.
I believe they can actually see Beru chopping. Also I think they might have finally started applying more than one espionage to us. They're at 18 now. We'll see on T52.

I guess chariots stay put until ready? They go to rice and then move to launch pad when it's a go? Oh I renamed the chariot to Dack Ralter .

I think we can move Owen to the road spot and claim it's for trade routes. I'd move the chariots on the furs. Beru chopping is nothing unusual I'd think. Re: EPs -- I hope we can hit them before they can see our power. We should maybe look a bit into that.

Another small point: let's not finish archery. When there is 1T left on it, let's run some 0% science. It increases our power and may tip Byz. This may not be needed if we start the war already.

@lurkers: Sorry for the lack of answers to some of you, but real life is really busy right now. I'll try to address some of your comments (thank you!) whenever possible.

Kalin

[kalin]

Ummm...Korea and us appear to have open borders? Did I miss some type of communication here? Can you shed any light on that Kalin? Thanks .

Hmm, missed this comment before my post I saw an offer in game, so I accepted it...

Sigh, also missed that Korea declared on Rome. I guess that with this attention to detail our chances to win are not that great

@lurkers: My faith in the "good faith" rule is dead! Given the precedents, I just don't think that all players agree on what that means, so people tend to interpret it as it suits them. Is this good? I don't think so. However, since it's legal under that other less ambiguous rules, we would most likely go with it.

Let me repeat. I personally would like this type of double move to not be allowed. However, it is legal and allowed, it has been used, there were two votes in RBP1 to change the rules that failed, and there is no doubt in my mind that our opponents would not hesitate to use it against us. Maybe the more people use this, the less people will like it and the rules may change. Until then however, we'll use it.

Kalin