[Spoilers] Ceterum Peter censet Carthaginem fore triumphatrix - Adrien + Miguelito

[Miguelito]

standard map size, Monarch; but it shouldn't really matter for the first city?

Of course it does .... ok and as I see I'll have to redo the sandbox... so sims due a little later

[AdrienIer]

There's a great analysis of great people's usefulness in the late game in Old Harry and Fintourist's PB18 thread (a few pages before last) if you're interested, they mention phi there. It's the best contribution I can give right now sorry

[Miguelito]

here is a Peter of Carthage sandbox if you want to play with it (no idea if changing Civ/Leader is possible in Worldbuilder)

Edit: dangit, forgot about game speed. correct file will follow


....


hope I got it right this time

[Miguelito]

Fintourist touches Phi, saying that it would indeed increase their GP rate a lot and that up to 24 GP would be possible. That sounds nice, although we certainly will never reach so many cities for parallel GP production. Would you generally approve trying Phi? I'm feeling that Mehmed with Org will probably be a stronger choice, but it sounds like less fun.

[Miguelito]

-Ok so with double worker we get:
a settler on T23, two workers, 9/20h in workboat (or 9/10 in warrior) and 13h overflow in the size 2 capital (maybe an idea to grow it until size 3?);
Agri,BW and AH are finished (15b in Wheel);
Farm on the corn, 3 chops done, wine hill mined and 1t to pasture. The two workers will have little to do until pottery, in case we don't want to chop the two remaining forests into another settler (might be better to reserve them for granary/library).
Instead of researching Wheel+Pottery (127b not counting prereq bonus) we can directly go for Writing (losing prereq bonus). Don't think it's a good idea, at least for the two worker strat.


-Single worker:
settler on T19, one worker, one worker halfway done on T22 (whippable, don't think it would be a good idea though), size 2 capital
Agri BW and AH are finished on T22 and we either have revolted or have 12 b in Wheel (revolt would be good before founding second city?) Kind of synergizes with worker movement also.
corn farmed, wine hill mined, just 1 chop.
The downside is we would have to work 1 3foodhamer/1commerce tile for quite some time, and the new city would have to start with the sheep unpastured till turn 24 or steal the corn (depends a lot on scouting)

I may edit in further sims later

[Miguelito]

these sims certainly could still be optimized (eg does one chop justify delaying AH for BW?). But I think the Exp of Carthage thing is certainly doable. Dutch I suppose would be great on a large Pitboss map, but here I think we need the advantage earlier (actually, even the cothon could be a bit late?).
I'm off till about 11pm. If you don't object, I would pick Carthage then (Not afraid they'll take Peter away). I will not do that
-if you want another civ
-if you think we don't want Peter and it's better to pick a good leader first (Mehmed imo)

[AdrienIer]

Oh yeah it's quick speed I didn't realize that. Ok so as someone playing Mehmet in PB22, playing exp in PB23 and dedlurking Mehmet in PB24 (if it ever starts) I'm voting on a definite Pericles. My first reaction was to run away from it but Jowy made good use of him in PBEM61 (well at least until he got attacked) and it's not a bad pick, with nice synergy. The first two civs that pop into my mind are Mali and Ethiopia. Carthage is good but it means lots of turns waiting for the right worker techs. I'll try to sim something later tonight.

[Miguelito]

Actually, right now I'm leaning more towards Peter for Carthage, as Exp gets cheap cothons, cheap granaries are awesome and thanks to plains hill start the worker production bonus is quite effective early on. But I think we would pick either of them in the end of the snakepick

[AdrienIer]

Ok I see the benefits of exp (else I wouldn't be playing it everywhere) and Carthage with islands involved is strong. No pb with you picking Carthage now.

[Miguelito]

Ok then let's go and enjoy it!