[LURKERS] PBEM 68: I Hope They Don't Notice The Barb Tanks

[BRickAstley]

Map details to be posted below.

[BRickAstley]

And I'm really excited about this map.

[BRickAstley]

Okay, so here's all of the starting screenshots for the players:

Sian:

AdrienIer:

retep:

Grimace:

So for the map, I generated a map with this map script. I wanted to use something we haven't had (at least to my knowledge) on RB before, and the land masses that this script makes are wonderful and realistic(ish) looking.

Here's a link to the latest WorldBuilder save of the map in progress.

It's non-symmetrical, but everyone has a roughly similar amount of land, access to all the strategic resources, and access to similar numbers of luxuries. Also, everyone should get land borders with everyone else, excepting some major pink dotting.

Please let me know if you have any comments on balance for it, great esteemed mapmakers and loudmouths.

[GermanJoey]

very interesting map, Brick! I've played Totestra some in the past, but it's always generated insanely massive maps for me. i was pleasantly surprised on how reasonable-sized this one was! i have a checklist that I ran it through, from when I've made maps in the past. i think its mostly pretty well balanced, although there's a few things that could make it a bit better.

• fresh water check. grimace needs fresh water and has no river tiles in BFC. retep needs fresh water; he has less river tiles in his BFC than other players, so you could just add a 1-length river
  
  
• start balance check. the starts look reasonably balanced. similar forestry, similar food. close enough!
  
  
• strategic resource check. copper, horses, and iron are all present and distributed the same way.
  
  
• strategic resource availability check. copper requires a dedicated plant, but for each player there's a good spot that lets copper and a food be in first ring. retep's is a bit farther though, at six tiles from cap. he also has another 5 tiles from cap, but this doesn't have a possible first-ring food. maybe bring that closer, or else move that 2nd ring fish to the coast? retep's food options near his horses are poor, adrien's options near his iron and his horses are poor.
  
  
• wonder resource check. stone is available nearby for all. there's only one marble though, on an astro island directly above adrien. its its fine if you want to distribute it on astro-island-only, but other players need to have their own astro islands like that too I think.
  
  
• modern resources check. coal, oil, uranium, aluminium: all got it. grimace's oil is offshore though, he should get something land-based.
  
  
• luxury check.
  
  - sian: silk, gold, wine, ivory, whales (contested), spices: 2.5 ancient, 3 classical. 1 forge, 2 market.
  - retep: ivory, silver (on island), incense, spices, dyes, whales, furs (on island): 4 ancient, 2 classical. 1 forge, 2 market.
  - grimace: silver (on island), gems (wooded), spices (contested), wine, ivory, dyes, furs: 4 ancient, 2.5 classical. 2 forge, 2 market.
  - adrien: whales (contested), ivory (4), gold, gems (jungle), spices (contested), dyes. 2.5 ancient, 3 classical. 2 forge, 2 market.
  
  overall this is pretty decent, i think. retep has it a little better here.
  
  
• river check. sian has no essentially rivers nearby at all. riverage is pretty low on this map... maybe scatter some 1-tle lakes here and there to provide fresh water?
  
  
• ICTR balance check. options for sian and grimace are poor, none of their ice islands have any food. adrien has a good spot with plenty of food, but its a 1-tile island. retep has a few really strong island spots. maybe throw some clams to sian and grimace, and a hill or two to adrien?
  
  
• distance check: grimace <-> adrien: 14, adrien <-> sian: 12, grimace <-> retep: 14, sian <-> retep: 16. seems ok, although adrien and sian are in much greater contention (they're almost directly above and below each other) than the other players will be compared to each other.
  
  
• good second city check: retep doesn't have a strong second city, but all the others do. this is related to the size of his "desert" area; see the next point. nobody has an obvious auto-route (via river or coast) that others don't have.
  
  
• food distro check. the thing about totestra is that it makes really cool land shapes, but in general makes huge maps (though this one looks OK, 199 land tiles per player) and generates way, way too much desert. in this case, every player has a big ass desert right in front of their capital. i think that's an interesting gimmick for a map, but the problem here is that retep and adrien's desert regions are way, way bigger than grimace or sian's, and also wrap around their capital in a way that makes settling around them very difficult:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  i think adrien's can be patched up with maybe 3-4 food resources along the edge of this region, and retep's maybe 2-3 more plus turn a bit of his desert to plains/grassland. or, you can make grimace's and sian's a bit bit bigger.
  
  
• land check. overall land seems to be distributed pretty evenly!
  

[BRickAstley]

very interesting map, Brick! I've played Totestra some in the past, but it's always generated insanely massive maps for me. i was pleasantly surprised on how reasonable-sized this one was!

It probably won't surprise you then that I had to generate a duel sized map here to get one appropriately sized for 4 players.

i have a checklist that I ran it through, from when I've made maps in the past. i think its mostly pretty well balanced, although there's a few things that could make it a bit better.

Thanks a lot for doing this, it'll be a big help! I'll go through your points and report back after I make some edits.

[Khan]

I think the map looks really nice and am jealous of the players.

[BRickAstley]

• fresh water check. grimace needs fresh water and has no river tiles in BFC. retep needs fresh water; he has less river tiles in his BFC than other players, so you could just add a 1-length river

  
  Added river-age to both grimace and retep's capitals.
  
  

• start balance check. the starts look reasonably balanced. similar forestry, similar food. close enough!

  
  
  
  

• strategic resource check. copper, horses, and iron are all present and distributed the same way.

  
  
  
  

• strategic resource availability check. copper requires a dedicated plant, but for each player there's a good spot that lets copper and a food be in first ring. retep's is a bit farther though, at six tiles from cap. he also has another 5 tiles from cap, but this doesn't have a possible first-ring food. maybe bring that closer, or else move that 2nd ring fish to the coast? retep's food options near his horses are poor, adrien's options near his iron and his horses are poor.

  
  

• river check. sian has no essentially rivers nearby at all. riverage is pretty low on this map... maybe scatter some 1-tle lakes here and there to provide fresh water?

  
  

• good second city check: retep doesn't have a strong second city, but all the others do. this is related to the size of his "desert" area; see the next point. nobody has an obvious auto-route (via river or coast) that others don't have.

  
  

• food distro check. the thing about totestra is that it makes really cool land shapes, but in general makes huge maps (though this one looks OK, 199 land tiles per player) and generates way, way too much desert. in this case, every player has a big ass desert right in front of their capital. i think that's an interesting gimmick for a map, but the problem here is that retep and adrien's desert regions are way, way bigger than grimace or sian's, and also wrap around their capital in a way that makes settling around them very difficult:
  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  i think adrien's can be patched up with maybe 3-4 food resources along the edge of this region, and retep's maybe 2-3 more plus turn a bit of his desert to plains/grassland. or, you can make grimace's and sian's a bit bit bigger.

  
  So after reading all of these, I realized I could knock out them all at once, by increasing the river amount on this map. By adding new 1 length rivers, extending already existing ones, and build a few new large ones; I could bolster existing grains, make those larger deserts more food happy with flood plains, and give everyone plenty of river choices. Though I also did move that one fish closer to retep's horses.
  
  

• wonder resource check. stone is available nearby for all. there's only one marble though, on an astro island directly above adrien. its its fine if you want to distribute it on astro-island-only, but other players need to have their own astro islands like that too I think.

  
  

• ICTR balance check. options for sian and grimace are poor, none of their ice islands have any food. adrien has a good spot with plenty of food, but its a 1-tile island. retep has a few really strong island spots. maybe throw some clams to sian and grimace, and a hill or two to adrien?

  
  

• modern resources check. coal, oil, uranium, aluminium: all got it. grimace's oil is offshore though, he should get something land-based.

  
  I removed the marble on the astro island, and made that a non-astro island by moving the small adrien island to the NW, to serve as a connector to that icy island. Also regarding *astro* islands, technically retep's 'iceland' lookalike was astro except by culture, I added one tile to the mainland to make it pure coast accessible for consistency.
  
  I expanded Sian and Grimace's ICTR islands to have more land, and added some clams/deer to have a bit of food there. Also gave oil to grimace on his ICTR island (and the desert nearish to him as well).
  
  

• luxury check.
  
  - sian: silk, gold, wine, ivory, whales (contested), spices: 2.5 ancient, 3 classical. 1 forge, 2 market.
  - retep: ivory, silver (on island), incense, spices, dyes, whales, furs (on island): 4 ancient, 2 classical. 1 forge, 2 market.
  - grimace: silver (on island), gems (wooded), spices (contested), wine, ivory, dyes, furs: 4 ancient, 2.5 classical. 2 forge, 2 market.
  - adrien: whales (contested), ivory (4), gold, gems (jungle), spices (contested), dyes. 2.5 ancient, 3 classical. 2 forge, 2 market.
  
  overall this is pretty decent, i think. retep has it a little better here.

  
  Nerfed retep a little by streamlining the lux resources on the islands a little; not just the north ones have furs, and just the south ones have silver. and each player has 2 for exclusive trading purposes.
  
  

• distance check: grimace <-> adrien: 14, adrien <-> sian: 12, grimace <-> retep: 14, sian <-> retep: 16. seems ok, although adrien and sian are in much greater contention (they're almost directly above and below each other) than the other players will be compared to each other.

  
  Doesn't seem to be much I can do here without significantly changing the map around, which i'd hate to do with starts already given. I think it will be okay how it is.
  
  

• land check. overall land seems to be distributed pretty evenly!

  
  
  
  

Current version of the map.

[BRickAstley]

I think the map looks really nice and am jealous of the players.

Commodore has said that too, we could always play a 'shadow' game on it after this game is done; that's where the players all already know the map but liked it enough to wanna play a game on it anyways.

[BRickAstley]

Also: I generated this at Duel size, which I figure needs to change for their game. Tiny or Small i guess?

[Khan]

I think the map looks really nice and am jealous of the players.

Commodore has said that too, we could always play a 'shadow' game on it after this game is done; that's where the players all already know the map but liked it enough to wanna play a game on it anyways.

That sounds fun. PBEM93 in the making!