[PB37 SPOILER] Coeurva, Bacchus -- Cyrus of Carthage

[Coeurva]

If he has spears, they're not visible, and from graphs/demos this should be (almost) his entire army. Perhaps it's because I claimed they'd "make him lose" and the universe took heed to accommodate my confidence?

Trademarked power of Positive Thinking aside, he might just assume we have no chariots because we could have hit his city with those instead; we also finished Writing on T58, which reveals itself (World Map trading). He might be underestimating our tech rate (which might hit #1 GNP next turn). Our slider ratio at break-even is 45%, by the way. (Doesn't say much without bpt, of course...)

We ourselves only knew that he didn't have horses back then because he didn't whip a chariot on T58, and all his whips so far have also been axes. His bpt should also be lower than ours by this point.

It's possible that CML is really just looking to resettle Cincinnati, but why send that westernmost axe (from his Henge city?) when he's got that site covered with three axes and two warriors already? Why road that forest before chopping it? I'm quite convinced he's looking to mount an offensive.

EDIT: I thought hammer decay only set in after 50t, but I could be mistaken, and RtR might have changed it anyway. Still, we have a buffer. The spears aren't actually at 1/35, because I've spend one or two low-hammer turns on them; thus, at least I'll notice when decay sets in.

[Bacchus]

Actually, apparently it's even 10 turns for units, 50 for buildings. Check GlobalDefines.xml

[Coeurva]

You're right:

Code:

    <Define>
        <DefineName>UNIT_PRODUCTION_DECAY_TIME</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>10</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>

Unchanged from vanilla, actually. That's a bit bothersome, if mostly due to the half-finished settler.

Also at Civ4 using Hungarian notation, but appending "IntVal" anyway. Our typing is extra-strong! (The other possible tag to follow DefineName is "fDefineFloatVal".)

[Coeurva]

T64.


CML hasn't visibly added units to his advancing troops (but whipped something for 1 pop this turn, perhaps at the capital). Three axes (one at 3.9 str) and two warriors are moving in against three of our own axes (one of them C1 Shock) and one warrior (his fourth axe will move onto Post, opposite our fourth axe); however, the maneuvering could get interesting, since we don't want to lose improvements to pillaging. We'll both have to be careful. Retreated our 1XP axe from Post, by the way -- reluctantly, but it was necessary to have enough units in theatre without whips that I'd rather not use just yet.

CML is using his window of opportunity well. Give us 5t of peace, and we'd run chariots into this stack at leisure. By acting immediately, it's more interesting; all depends on how fast we can hook up horses, which we'll find out on T65. Nothing has a higher priority right now. If we can connect by T67, his units are absolutely screwed if he keeps moving; but his offensive momentum ensures that he can resettle Cincinnati for the time being, at least.

Still not sure whether we should attempt to finish him via HBR, or keep teching economic stuff, or mix both approaches.


In fairness, that's only our 100% research rate. Disregarding CML possibly pillaging our silver on T68, the GNP will drop off next turn anyway, as we'll need to save gold again. Graphs are looking quite good right now, though.

Did you know that Savant has claimed circumnavigation on this toroidal map, by the way? I'm not kidding. In fact, he obtained it on T61, surely using his crafty work boats, but he hasn't met CML (as the Foreign Advisor reveals). I think the map is a bit stranger than I'd assumed and your lattice idea might be more accurate, actually. That jungle east of Savant seems to continue too far eastward, from what we can see, to be just another peninsula. We'll actually have a bit of an opportunity to explore with Ames-Ace (who's set to cover X7).

Besides, this really mails in how shitty our map knowledge is.

Two more things: the top player in soldiers lost 8,000 points. There's a war going on for sure, and whoever is Rival Worst in the top three categories seems to be in deep trouble.


The next settler finishes faster than I'd assumed, due to voodoo. Just as well; Savant founded his fifth city on this turn. Still can see no chariots; wonder what the split is all about. Galley attack? Amphibious war elephants? Don't even jest about it.

Thinking to relay the chop in the south into Vermin's barracks, actually. The granary at Lifeblood, for which it was planned, could also be 2-whipped with its wonderful food surplus, and the timing of the chop is really awkward (one worker chops it too late, two workers chop it too early).

Quite some spare happiness to crack the whip at...

[Bacchus]

The axe had to retreat from Post eventually anyway, it's done it's job for now. Chopping a Barracks rather than the Granary is a good idea.

Before Lifeblood builds a granary, I would maybe put 5 hammers into an axe, to get it ready for a whip too, just in case we need it for defense.

The maintenance costs are painful.

[Coeurva]

The axe had to retreat from Post eventually anyway, it's done it's job for now.

There's one more job left. By moving 6 onto the forest on T65, we deny CML the convenient route towards Lifeblood (or trade axe for axe, which favours us because we're on the defense with better supply lines) and usher him towards Vermin, where our counter-strike is set up.

Chopping a Barracks rather than the Granary is a good idea.

Best practice will be to 2-whip the barracks on T66 with 71/60h or more; the overflow will allow us to chop a 2XP chariot (if available), 2XP axe, or actually chop Lifeblood's granary on T67 as needed. CML can't pillage Vermin's silver before T68.

Before Lifeblood builds a granary, I would maybe put 5 hammers into an axe, to get it ready for a whip too, just in case we need it for defense.

That's already done. Lifeblood has four partial builds (boat, spear, axe, granary) partly due to my underestimating decay rates. The axe was the earliest item, unfortunately...

The maintenance costs are painful.

I've been trying to keep our cities small to mitigate them somewhat, but yeah, they're a drain totalling almost half our bpt. Do you have an idea what we can do here?

Projected events that will change our economy: found X7, work furs, whip boat for Ignis' whales, tech Sailing, grab silver at Ignis, improve a few cottages (at capital), settle X8 overseas, get Alpha (+ OB with someone?), settle X9, get Currency, (get CoL?).

[Bacchus]

Nothing for the maintenance costs except cottages and libraries, and not pushing too hard with new settles. We have plenty of nice riverland, and without the CML distraction that would all fix itself pretty much, but we definitely need to push cottaging as much as possible anyway. And Currency, but of course that's underway anyway. Still not sure whether the Maths or Alpha route is better. The build research is redundant once build wealth is also available, and Hanging Gardens may actually be a thing, we certainly have enough cities.

EDIT: But probably not on HG, aqueducts are too much of a useless thing.

[Coeurva]

Alright, we'll probably settle one city per 10t until ~T90; I think that should work out to ease maintenance. Cottages pose a bit of a problem due to how much our economy relies on whipping, but e.g. Lifeblood should work well as a cottage city. Sicil actually has good potential for commerce, but I think we require it to build units (civilian and military) for other cities.

Iron Working would unlock the extensive south-eastern river valley, including a gems tile, and could actually be a nice compromise to boost both our domestic economy and our potential to take cities from CML (I'd rather not attack Savant unless in a decisive strike). RtR swords get odds on axes in cities, and a sword stack covered by some axes (which we already have) could be difficult to attack as the defender. It's also on the way to cothons, and might provide us with a useful iron tile or two. The downside would be delaying Currency (and perhaps a lack of workers to chop jungle with), but it's more immediately useful than either prerequisite tech for Currency.

Yeah, Hanging Gardens seem worthwhile at the stage where we can build it (~10 extra pop), only that I'm not sure where the production should come from. Rhapsody with two mines can reach 15 hpt, which is still kind of low. Let's hope Mardoc has placed stone on the islands.

Well, the CML distraction is something I'll have to take responsibility for, but I think it was worth it, all in all. We're not building many more units than we would have built if he had just settled and grown Cincinnati, and we have a reasonable chance to destroy his incoming units (even if we don't get chariots in time) and gain some useful Great General points from IMP + domestic terrain bonus in the process. If that happens, we could offer peace for his map.

I was wrong about him running the EP slider; he's investing 3 EP/t into us (interesting that he keeps investing in dtay, since it suggests dtay also invests some in him -- probably splitting half/half).

EDIT: I'm not sure whether building research is completely redundant after Currency -- T-hawk once wrote about measuring the returns of merchant vs. scientist (here); perhaps the same can be applied to research vs. wealth. Most of the time, you'll want to build wealth, though.

[Bacchus]

Exactly for the reasons outlined by T-Hawk, you'd rather build wealth than research -- only hammer modifiers are applied to the currencies built in queues. So especially in our case with plentiful libraries, building research instead of jacking up the slider is a veritable crime.

I think that our play towards CML has been completely appropriate. Even if he is tilting, that's in our favour, just that the positive effect will take longer to manifest. Don't be greedy on units though, no reason to take excessive chances, we should be able to afford 90ish percent certainty of not losing Vermin.

[Bacchus]

As for pop, there wasn't really anywhere to grow it onto, but now we should push cottaging quite hard, the game speeds up massively after T90, the window for cottage development is closing.