Diplo/team pitboss?

[Raskolnikov]

I strongly encourage you all to require setting in place or within 1 tile. If you allow settling beyond that then there is a strong chance that you will be upset 50 turns in that one of the other players found the land of milk and honey 3 tiles away and settled for "double wet corn/ double gold" while you and everyone else are stuck with a balanced start.

I'll leave it up to you whether require settling in place or moving 1 tile, my disclaimer is that I've only ensured that someone won't massively improve their capital by moving 1 tile.

Oh, and I after a few attempts I rolled a map that I'm pleased with as a starting point. Have to run out for a bit but I'm hoping to post starting screenshots in a mapmaking/lurker thread in a few hours.

I trust your experience. I was sharing my thoughts but will go with the consensus.

Great news about the map and thank you for providing it.  

[superdeath]

No I will compile a version for you. Just decide on everything that needs an implementation in the mod and then I make a version.

You. Are. Amazing. Dont ever change.

I am strongly against presettled capitals. If I want to screw up my starting loc, please let me do...

I strongly encourage you all to require setting in place or within 1 tile. If you allow settling beyond that then there is a strong chance that you will be upset 50 turns in that one of the other players found the land of milk and honey 3 tiles away and settled for "double wet corn/ double gold" while you and everyone else are stuck with a balanced start.

I'll leave it up to you whether require settling in place or moving 1 tile, my disclaimer is that I've only ensured that someone won't massively improve their capital by moving 1 tile.

Oh, and I after a few attempts I rolled a map that I'm pleased with as a starting point. Have to run out for a bit but I'm hoping to post starting screenshots in a mapmaking/lurker thread in a few hours.

Im all for a "house rule" ect of no moving farther than 1 tile. Dont want to upset the glorious mapmakers that we have!  

We seem to agree on:

Tech trading ON, no tech brokering.
Map trading moved to Paper and available to trade.
Tech trading moved to Alphabet. 

Anything im missing? Ive updated the first post

[superdeath]

And we may start discussing the specific sizes and dates of beaker quotas. The aim, I think, should be to enable one to transfer away 2-3 techs of respective age every thirty years. In this way, techtrading will be an important part of the game without utterly dominating it. Quotas are, of course, cumulative, so you can trade away more if you have not used up your previous quota. Thoughts?
And one more thing. Krillmod makes it impossible to trade away pre-paper techs even with techtrading on. That also needs to be modded away.

So to start the tech trading discussion:

Id prefer something really really simple if we are going to put in "quotas" to limit tech trading. But id rather honestly just assume that no one is going to just throw the game away giving techs to someone, with THAT in mind the only "quota" i can offer is that there is no giving away of techs. MUST trade at least a tech for a tech.

My main reasoning is to prevent either of A: Someone deciding to give person A all the techs down the say, paper-education path for free while that person is already teching their way thru philosophy. And B: to prevent what happens in tech trading games with AI.. If someone is down so far from the rest of us, let them die. No need to prop up the runt of the litter with rifles when they are still playing with HA's.

But im open to ideas.

[Mr. Cairo]

So to start the tech trading discussion:

Id prefer something really really simple if we are going to put in "quotas" to limit tech trading. But id rather honestly just assume that no one is going to just throw the game away giving techs to someone, with THAT in mind the only "quota" i can offer is that there is no giving away of techs. MUST trade at least a tech for a tech.

My main reasoning is to prevent either of A: Someone deciding to give person A all the techs down the say, paper-education path for free while that person is already teching their way thru philosophy. And B: to prevent what happens in tech trading games with AI.. If someone is down so far from the rest of us, let them die. No need to prop up the runt of the litter with rifles when they are still playing with HA's.

But im open to ideas.

With techs for techs only one workaround I can see with that is later in the game you can trade something like Meditation for Rifling, which is essentially gifting Rifling but still within the letter of the rules. The simplest solution to that is to enforce a limit on beaker differences between the two sides of the trade. So one side of the trade can only have up to 20% more or less beakers than the other.

I agree with SD, I don't think a strict quota is necessary, I like to think everyone will stay within the spirit of the rules and not abuse tech trading, but if we do have a quota it should be as simple as possible.

Also worth discussing is unit and city gifting. Personally I think unit gifting should be banned, and city gifting only as part of a peace treaty, so even if the players agree to it they still need to pay the price of trashing their trade routes.

[superdeath]

Id prefer no unit/city gifting. Just sounds like a way to bully someone. If you want to get stuff for little effort, maybe declaring and forcing someone to give you a tech for peace? Idk, i just dont like city gifting/unit gifting just from reading pb2 alone.

20% sounds like a bit of a pain to work with. How about a flat 50%? Would make it easier to say "hey, id give you alphabet for sailing, and next round ill need a bit more" or something like that. Honestly hoping for this tech trading pb we have less restrictions on TT and more "dont be a dick"

[Gavagai]

The rationale behind the quota system is that without any additional limits techtrading becomes the dominant aspect of the game. It is a very powerful mechanic that allows players to create thousands of beakers ex nihilo. If it is on, nothing else is even remotely that important. And this is not a game anyone wants to play, trust me.
This is why diplo game should be played with no tech trading or some limits imposed on techtrading. Tech for tech rule does not limit techtrading enough and, on the other hand, is unnecessarily restrictive, as it prevents many fun diplo interactions, like, giving techs in a peace deal (and tech is one thing in civ which you absolutely cannot take by force and in this way it represents a rather unique currency). This is why I still recommend us to play with quota system. It will be a simple schedule like
T0 - 1000 beakers
T100 - 3000 beakers
T130 - 8000 beakers
etc.
Numbers, of course, are up to debate, I put zero thought into them.

[superdeath]

hmm, See... now that sounds more manageable. If its just can only trade X beakers between such and such dates... i could see that working. I just didnt want to do some extra math.

[Gavagai]

In respect to gifting: my proposal is to allow gifting of non-military units, banning gifting of cities and military units.

[Gavagai]

No I will compile a version for you. Just decide on everything that needs an implementation in the mod and then I make a version.

You. Are. Amazing. Dont ever change.

I am strongly against presettled capitals. If I want to screw up my starting loc, please let me do...

I strongly encourage you all to require setting in place or within 1 tile. If you allow settling beyond that then there is a strong chance that you will be upset 50 turns in that one of the other players found the land of milk and honey 3 tiles away and settled for "double wet corn/ double gold" while you and everyone else are stuck with a balanced start.

I'll leave it up to you whether require settling in place or moving 1 tile, my disclaimer is that I've only ensured that someone won't massively improve their capital by moving 1 tile.

Oh, and I after a few attempts I rolled a map that I'm pleased with as a starting point. Have to run out for a bit but I'm hoping to post starting screenshots in a mapmaking/lurker thread in a few hours.

Im all for a "house rule" ect of no moving farther than 1 tile. Dont want to upset the glorious mapmakers that we have!  

We seem to agree on:

Tech trading ON, no tech brokering.
Map trading moved to Paper and available to trade.
Tech trading moved to Alphabet. 

Anything im missing? Ive updated the first post

You missed allowing trading of pre-paper techs. Also, in the last version of the mod peace offers are blocked for the first few turns of the war. Do we want to keep it?

[thestick]

Well, guess I'll dedlurk GKC. Hopefully the timezones work out (I'm US Pacific, GMT -7).