RB Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Speaker and Sullla

[Speaker]

One last FU from Kathlete on his way out. He signed peace with Slaze and gifted him the two island cities that were the cause of the reload controversy earlier, and we still had units around, and were about to send over enough to finish the job. Sorry, but you have acted like a total scumbag this entire game Kathlete:

*Constant turn timer manipulations during the 5v1
*Complete refusal to end your turn for the past six months
*Taking cities and units from Jowy during our war just so we couldn't have them, even though they were rightfully ours as the attacker
*Backstabbing Slaze with gifted units
*Refusal to even try and defend yourself and instead gifting enough gold to Nakor so he could upgrade his army and run 100% tech
*Signing peace with Slaze two turns before you die and gifting him cities that we were about to capture

Your conduct makes me so angry, I don't even know what else to say. Why couldn't you just play the game to the best of your abilities, and leave it at that? Why do you have go give the other teams advantages just to spite us? Just because we have played well? Despite having numerous opportunities to do so, we haven't smacked anyone publicly. We haven't sent any taunting emails, posted any insults in any of the public threads, have been respectful of the other teams in the game, and been a good ally to those who cared to work with us.

I will never play another game, Pitboss, or otherwise with you, nor will I play another Pitboss game where such blatantly cheesy gifting tactics are allowed. Who cares about sportsmanship, huh?

[Jowy]

lol

[Sullla]

This is a load of horse crap.

Not going to rant on and on, Speaker having already posted a nice summation of our feelings. But yeah, we're pissed at the appallingly bad sportsmanship displayed by Kathlete. Once again, we have a city gifted away to a third party to prevent capture. This whole thing is such a joke.... cheese gifting of units/gold/cities should not be allowed in these games. If there's one lesson we learn from Pitboss #2, I hope it's that.

Just defend your own cities, you goddamn coward! I honestly have more respect for the freaking Templars at this point.

Anyway....



Update on the Nakor/Dantski war, where of course Kumbi Saleh was captured and renamed Bas-Tyra. Nakor split up his stack into three parts, which wasn't particularly smart, and if we had our main army down in the south we could have wiped it out with minimal losses. Of course we don't have our army down in the south, so we have no choice but to bide our time for the moment. At least these units will have to stop and heal at some point, and they are mostly all slow movers.



Not too much going on over in the east. We moved next to Endor, so Kathlete will hit our stack with his catapults to delay us for one turn, and we'll use that turn to heal with the Medic III and bomb down his defenses. Then we just start killing units, which may take more than one turn (there are 26 units in Endor - even if they're outdated, we can only kill one per attack).

Hilton Head is empty - what else is new? - and it will be recaptured next turn. We actually have a sizable amount of our army defending the captured cities, to prevent Kathlete from retaking them (as he did at Hilton Head) and then cheese gifting them away to a third party. I wouldn't put anything past him at this point. We're half surprised that Kathlete didn't just gift every single city to Nakor on the first turn of the war...

Out of curiosity, once your war with athlete is over (and from the speed you have gone sofar, its wont be long) what are your plans regarding future wars??

For starters, consult the flow chart for our gameplan:

1) Kill all the units in our land - CHECK
2a) Kill Greece - CHECK
2b) Kill Rome - CHECK
2c) Kill Ottomans - IN PROGRESS
2d) Kill Holy Rome
3) ???
4) Profit!!

More seriously, we might declare war on Nakor pretty quickly after the Ottoman war comes to a close. If we feel like we are secure on the southern border (and we're starting to get some serious power there, even aside from the force in the east), then we could very well go after Nakor at the first opportunity. If he's still facing Dantski, more's the better for us.

Because of the collateral damage posed by cannons/catapults, any force that tries to engage across the main front along our southern border is going to take horrible, crushing losses. Therefore, the best tactic is not to engage in that sort of combat: defend along the main border, and go on the attack elsewhere. We'd really like to take control of the center island if possible, where Nakor has six strong cities (two of them cheese gifted from Whosit, remember...) If we could make some progress there, while simultaneously picking apart Nakor's many island cities using a combination of galleons, frigates, and the broken "coastal blockade" feature, we could do a ton of damage in a hurry. Make the game one of Nakor's core cities on the main island against ours, and he can't possibly win (we'll outnumber him something like 25-10 in that category after this war is over).

After Chemistry tech, we're going to try to go right to Communism for State Property civic. (That means passing up Steel temporarily, which may be dangerous, so this could change depending on what Nakor does.) With State Property, Nakor's one great edge over us disappears: his tiny maintenance costs from Rathaus spam. But with State Property, every city costs exactly 6gpt in mainteance, reduced to 3gpt with a courthouse. Add in the economic benefit of workshops and the straight +10% production boost, and we'll have an ungodly production advantage to go along with massive research from reduced costs.

From there, we keep killing, killing, and more killing until we win by Domination or everyone else is dead.

[Selrahc]

Here is the thing I don't understand. Why are you guys fixated on a rule to disallow cheese gifting? You had all the tools to stop people doing it in your hands. If after the war against Jowy you had told Kathlete in no uncertain terms that you considered those cities yours, and taken them militarily if he refused to back down, then there is no way anybody else would have even considered pulling the same move again.

[Speaker]

Here is the thing I don't understand. Why are you guys fixated on a rule to disallow cheese gifting? You had all the tools to stop people doing it in your hands. If after the war against Jowy you had told Kathlete in no uncertain terms that you considered those cities yours, and taken them militarily if he refused to back down, then there is no way anybody else would have even considered pulling the same move again.

I also could have created a second name, entered this game, and then at some point gifted all my cities and gold and units from the second name to our team. That wasn't technically against the rules at all!

Are you seriously arguing that what they are doing is a legit tactic?

[Selrahc]

Are you seriously arguing that what they are doing is a legit tactic?

I don't like it personally and I wouldn't do it myself. It isn't a nice tactic, but I think it is legit.

I'm not really talking about that though. I'm saying that you could make it fail. Regardless of whether it should be, it is definitely allowed in this game. The best response if you don't want to see it happen is to show the consequences of it. Don't let people hide behind a NAP with weakly defended border cities gifted from your foe. Call them out and take their cities, and the tactic is exposed as a sham. Having cities that should be yours stolen out from under you by a tactic that is shady at best is more than enough justification to cancel a NAP.

All complaining about it does is get you angry. Taking in game action would solve the problem.

[Speaker]

All complaining about it does is get you angry. Taking in game action would solve the problem.

In case you didn't notice, we took very decisive in-game action against Kathlete. He currently has 2 cities left. But we weren't going to go charging in there until the time was right. That would be cutting off our nose to spite our face. If you only take away one thing from this game, and from reading our thread, understanding when to attack and when not to attack is one of *the* keys in this game. That's why Kathlete's attacks on Slaze failed, and ours against Jowy and Kathlete were so successful.

[Selrahc]

In case you didn't notice, we took very decisive in-game action against Kathlete. He currently has 2 cities left. But we weren't going to go charging in there until the time was right. That would be cutting off our nose to spite our face. If you only take away one thing from this game, and from reading our thread, understanding when to attack and when not to attack is one of *the* keys in this game. That's why Kathlete's attacks on Slaze failed, and ours against Jowy and Kathlete were so successful.

Weren't his Jowy cities protected by bare minimum troops while his army was off fighting slaze? Taking them wouldn't have been hard.
http://www.cassiopeiathedog.net/Images/P...B2-313.jpg
http://www.cassiopeiathedog.net/Images/P...B2-312.jpg
Make a diplomacy demand for the two Jowy cities, if he refuses take them by force then offer a blank check peace treaty and a continuation of the NAP. That would show your hatred for the tactic, get you the cities and not overcommit your military or really change anything else.

[Speaker]

Weren't his Jowy cities protected by bare minimum troops while his army was off fighting slaze? Taking them wouldn't have been hard.
http://www.cassiopeiathedog.net/Images/P...B2-313.jpg
http://www.cassiopeiathedog.net/Images/P...B2-312.jpg
Make a diplomacy demand for the two Jowy cities, if he refuses take them by force then offer a blank check peace treaty and a continuation of the NAP. That would show your hatred for the tactic, get you the cities and not overcommit your military or really change anything else.

Good idea in theory, but what human would allow two cities to be captured and then turn around and sign peace? We would have tied ourself into a bitter conflict for sure. In any event, I am pretty sure we had a NAP in place with Kathlete at the time, and didn't want to break it, for obvious reasons. Furthermore, demanding cities was not a diplomatic path we wanted to go down, which is why we won't do it to slaze here. We have not played this game as the bully, and won't start now.

[Selrahc]

Good idea in theory, but what human would allow two cities to be captured and then turn around and sign peace? We would have tied ourself into a bitter conflict for sure. In any event, I am pretty sure we had a NAP in place with Kathlete at the time, and didn't want to break it, for obvious reasons. Furthermore, demanding cities was not a diplomatic path we wanted to go down, which is why we won't do it to slaze here. We have not played this game as the bully, and won't start now.

Probably true. I'm sure you guys made the best gameplay decision. But I think the lack of consequences for moves like this is what has caused others to repeat it. You could have made these moves a lot less of an easy call for the civ that accepts the cities.