[SPOILERS]A new adventure of Vanrober always guided by chumchu

[vanrober]

Lets see how may units he has:
He seems to have 30000points since he is abobe us on graphs and the 1st power has that. 

• Cities?, 1, pop?, 4 so 2000 points
  
• tech?
  lets see, he is spain, so he starts with fishing and mist, he ended on turn 9 meditation, on turn 16 (mining-2000), on turn 19 (agri), on turn 28 (BW-8000), on 32 (Hunting-2000), on 37 (archery-6000) Something like that should work
  
• City buildings, i think he has no barracs (didnt make a pic of his city but any of his warriors has promo i think)
  
• Finally what should scary us, units. Before counting lets see how many points he has: 2k+2k+8k+2k+6k=20k. So he has 10k in units. We see 2 warriors thats 4k, so 6k left.
  he could have either 3 warriors more or 2 archer more. Or maybe 1 archer and 1 barrac? Nah he cannot have a barrac he is worst on prod of the 3 of us
  

In case he has 5 warriors that would be 15*5=75h. In case he has 2 warriors and 2 archers it would be 80h. REally close.
So the question is, could he make 2 archers in 3 turns thats 17 h per turn and we have 12 in 3 cities. it seems unlikely.

So i would bet for 5 warriors.

[chumchu]

That could be the case. Are you sure he has no cities yet? That would be a very slow opening and a misuse of PRO:s ability.

[vanrober]

He might created this turn but when i logged in he had just 1 as you can see next to the strenght in th emost right part of his score in the leynd.

çBut im thinking he might choped to get out archers, and that would change the count. se he might have the 2 archers

[vanrober]

And about his slow start. Thats the reason of making this. He is on tun 40 with just the capitol, thats so slow, he went to religion with a slow civ, something like Nau on PB54 and didnt work either I do think we had to take advantage of that. I hope i dont regret

[vanrober]

For this turn i see some trouble.

What is the plan now? he refused to take pece and he is brionging his units toward us. The thing is we cannot atack his warrior with anything but warriors, and thats a coin flip wich means we need the double of numbers thn him, and thats not happening soon. If he wants to slow us down he can just come toward us to the hill and then he can continue towards pomegranate and threat both cities. And while doing so he can just pillage the road and the caw if we decide to improve the caw.

I thought 3 diferent aproaches of this problem. 1st, ignore him, make settler on the capitol and chop a few warriors, 4-5 for each city should be enough and let him pillage if he wants to, then we will have propably copper and make an axe or 2 and force peace to keep the expansion. We can keep the tech path.
2nd,  tech archery, make archers to force the peace and keep the expansion.
3rd, Go full warriors to dont let him freely pillage and force him away, we have more production so we might get units faster so we can even force the warrior vs warrior and then go to his capitol and make sure he declared war for something.
He is going to lose this game for his own decisions. Its sad this situation, i know he might be pissed of because we forced him to make 2 warriors to be safe, but that was all our threat, we didnt declare war we just slowed him up so we could keep the expansion, we could do that because he decided to make a slow early and we had to take advantage, we are imp. We did that to get a gain, he is doing this beacause he is mad and he just dont want to win anymore, he acts like a 3years old kid saying "Im angry so i dont breathe anymore" (Me enfado y no respiro, is a saying in spanish, im not sure i it has sense on english). I dont know, maybe i did something terrible and im not aware.

So If we are trying not to fall behind for this sht of Ruff. There are a lot of variations. 4 turns settler, plus 3 turns to settle 4 city on copper, we can make 2 workers there after working the caw and get copper in another 4 turns, that would be turn 51 or so. So first axes turn 53 aprox, thats 12 turns from now, which means he can bring several units. He is pro, and i remember PB51 in which ramk took a city of mine with Skirmishers because he was pro. So i ve been trying to figure out if he has odds with pro archers and he has. Its a free win vs a warrior on flat (85-95%) less likely on hill (70%), flat city is a coinflip  and the only way of having odds in our favour is having hill city and def bonnus, so if he is bringing archers we need to settle warriors fortify asap so they get as much def bonnus as possible. 

So the thing is, how to defend of that? Archery would be 4 turns so we could have archers in 6-7 turns which would warranty we are save, but what about expansion? maybe make the settler go to the A point? What about the warriors and workers over the corn? The worker back to chop? the warriors should go def the city so they get better odds vs archers if thats the case? Or better go to the hill to try to slow those warriors a turn for getting into the caw? Does he brings reinforcements? So many questions, what do you think?

Im not sure this is readable. So if you have questions feel free to ask.

Some pictures so you feel better the battlefield

           

[chumchu]

Logged in to have a look. We are in a good position here so let's not throw it away. We are way ahead of him in food and production and slightly ahead in military. The main thing is to not tilt our selves. Let him make mistakes because he is angry.

1) Two Warriors are not that dangerous. We have 3 in the area so we are not at risk of losing the city. With another unit we get good odds to clean him up.

2) The goal is to better our economy as fast as possible despite the two warriors. Either we defend the worker with all 3 warriors OR we retreat all the units from the corn. I think the best way for him to be annoying is to camp that hill as it has a defensive bonus and borders both the city and 2 resources. Therefore I think we have to retreat the worker on corn so that our 2 warriors can go to the hill. If he moves to the corn then we may have to shift another warrior into the city from the hill. Needless to say the warrior built in Figs should head north. The worker on corn can put a turn into a farm/road on the tile 1 S. Next turn it can help with the cow.

3) I would recommend getting archery. It is only 4 turns and would let us clean up his warriors and defend our cities against better units later. 1 unfortified archer in that city means that he need 7 warriors on average to take it down. 2 warriors have like 0.2% chance to take an archer without fortify.
We have a lot of warriors already and archers are much better long term. If he manages to get chariots/axes it is also a great safety net.

[vanrober]

Logged in to have a look. We are in a good position here so let's not throw it away. We are way ahead of him in food and production and slightly ahead in military. The main thing is to not tilt our selves. Let him make mistakes because he is angry.

1) Two Warriors are not that dangerous. We have 3 in the area so we are not at risk of losing the city. With another unit we get good odds to clean him up.

2) The goal is to better our economy as fast as possible despite the two warriors. Either we defend the worker with all 3 warriors OR we retreat all the units from the corn.  I think the best way for him to be annoying is to camp that hill as it has a defensive bonus and borders both the city and 2 resources. Therefore I think we have to retreat the worker on corn so that our 2 warriors can go to the hill. If he moves to the corn then we may have to shift another warrior into the city from the hill. Needless to say the warrior built in Figs should head north. The worker on corn can put a turn into a farm/road on the tile 1 S. Next turn it can help with the cow.

3) I would recommend getting archery. It is only 4 turns and would let us clean up his warriors and defend our cities against better units later. 1 unfortified archer in that city means that he need 7 warriors on average to take it down. 2 warriors have like 0.2% chance to take an archer without fortify.
We have a lot of warriors already and archers are much better long term. If he manages to get chariots/axes it is also a great safety net.

So getting archery then masonry adn then fishing sailing?. Also the settler of the capitol where should it go? to the copper city or the A city?

The workers over the Sheep can get the caw done in 2 turns already, the other worker is not making it less time so i would make another thing with that worker, i thought bring him to pomegranate and chop an archer in 5-6 turns (we have no gold to make it in 4 turns). And before that we could make a road from the capitol so reinforcements get faster. If we road well we can make a unit get into grapes in just 3 turns.

Why put 2 warriors on the hill if we are going to move one into the city one turn after? We could get 1 turn more of defensive bonus if we move 1into the hill and 1 into the city isnt it? Am i missing something?

[chumchu]

Archery, masonry, fishing, sailing.

I still like city F to lock down that region.

We could do it with one warrior on the hill as well. Just slightly worried that he would attack and roll well even if it is a desperate move.

[vanrober]

Turn 41

Just played as you suggested. Moved both warriors just inc ase and if he goes to the conr next turn i ll move both warriors into the city.

This turn saving gold so we end archery in 5 turns.

Moved both warriors towards grapes just in case. We can make 1turn warrior on capitol if needed for some reason.

The worker over the corn is now on the city, moving 1S of pomegranate next turn, as both warriors. On turn 43 another worker gets out of pomegranate and will make a turn of road, and so will do the other worker so we save a turn on moving those 2 warriors. On turn 45 we can start a chop that will en on turn 46 adn we can build an archer with those hammers.

The 2 workers over the caw will end it next turn so the city use that tile, then on turn 43 they move south to road, turn 44 road ivory tile, turn 45 forest of copper, turn 46 road so in that turn the settler gets into the F tile, turn 47 they chop and the city is done, turn 48 the chop is done in a monument and then a WB, turn 50 we got the copper rolling.

What should we make in our capitol after the settler? maybe a warrior and another settler?

I didnt ask for peace this time, should i go in and ask for it?

   

Demos and graphs, getting that warrior this turn put us first in powr, alse we are killing on food and prod. But our GNP is crap. Maybe Fishing, pottery and sailing would be better.

       

[vanrober]

Turn 42

ruff is trying to archer rush us. He didnt end any other unit, but now we know he has 2 archers and 2 warriors. He has not enough to take Grapes, but the thing is what should we do next? shuld i move the warriors of the hill so they get some defensive bonnus in the city? What i am afraid of is if he gets the hill and then try to go to pomegranate taking away our sheeps and caw if we mannage to get an archer in that city with the chop. We cant really kill 2 archers and 2 warriors without 4 or 5 archers and a bunch of warriors. So i didnt move the warriors until you tell me what you think.

   

An archer vs the warrior on the hill gets 82% odds of winning so we will have to put them into the city. Remember on 2 turns will arrive 2 more warriors and on 3 turns one warrior will appear on Grapes. So im not afraid of losing the city unles we have so bad odds, the thing is if he tries to get Pomegranate or the improvements we have between those 2 cities.

Civac saw us, and he seems to be in the south. Bad news, he is one of the best of the game, he is from the dutch forum and is killing on PB55.

Demos and GRaphs looks nice to us, we are making money and we are not that bad on GNP. We can do much with this start if ruff doesnt slow us down too much.