[PB62] Tarkeel and civac feel the need for speed

[Tarkeel]

We had a brief chat about which civs would be interesting to play; the start will of course heavily influence what is viable.

I've long wanted to play Lieu-Ye (ORG/PRO) of Spain; mainly to see how viable Citadels are, but Conquistadors also look pretty tasty.
Germany with an ORG leader would be good if we think the game goes long, but this might be on the tight side for that. We'd probably try to bulb Chemistry for early Riesengardes, but factories at SteamPower is also great.
Stalin (AGG/IND) of Japan would be fun to build amphibious samurai everywhere, but will severly lack an early and economic game.
America with an EXP leader would be interesting to try the new immigration station.
Dutch on a watery map is loads of fun, but you have a huge bullseye on your back.
Mehmed (EXP/ORG) of Ottomans (cue the unrestricted leaders joke) would be good on a happy-constrained map where you can rush gunpowder.
Shaka (AGG/EXP) of Zulu (another unrestricted joke) is another classic that hasn't been played in CtH.
France for fast muskets and free specialists on observatories look pretty strong.
Asoka (ORG/SPI) of Aztecs is another I've wanted to try for a while, but pindicator just played that in RtR.

[Charriu]

We had a brief chat about which civs would be interesting to play; the start will of course heavily influence what is viable.

I've long wanted to play Lieu-Ye (ORG/PRO) of Spain; mainly to see how viable Citadels are, but Conquistadors also look pretty tasty.
Germany with an ORG leader would be good if we think the game goes long, but this might be on the tight side for that. We'd probably try to bulb Chemistry for early Riesengardes, but factories at SteamPower is also great.
Stalin (AGG/IND) of Japan would be fun to build amphibious samurai everywhere, but will severly lack an early and economic game.
America with an EXP leader would be interesting to try the new immigration station.
Dutch on a watery map is loads of fun, but you have a huge bullseye on your back.
Mehmed (EXP/ORG) of Ottomans (cue the unrestricted leaders joke) would be good on a happy-constrained map where you can rush gunpowder.
Shaka (AGG/EXP) of Zulu (another unrestricted joke) is another classic that hasn't been played in CtH.
France for fast muskets and free specialists on observatories look pretty strong.
Asoka (ORG/SPI) of Aztecs is another I've wanted to try for a while, but pindicator just played that in RtR.

FYI France no longer gets a free specialist with it's UB. It's back to base BtS, where it gets a free artist on it's UB.
Zulu were played by Mr. Cairo together with AGG in PB52.

Oh and I think it goes without saying that I - as a developer - would love to see a rarely played civ like America or Germany in capable hands.

[Tarkeel]

When did the observatory change? I'm looking at the civilopedia for 2.0 (PB59 version):


Cairo indeed played Zulu, but with Tokugawa (AGG/PRO), when PRO was a bit too powerful.

[Charriu]

Oh  

I think you found a bug. From that screenshot it looks like France gets a free specialist and an artist slot. I will have to check that.

[civac2]

In a bigger game maybe. I'm afraid 7 players is not the place to play the Germans. In PB59 I would have been reasonably happy with them. (Just realized Ichabod is playing them which I did not consider. )

A lot of the ideas Tarkeel and I came up with are meant for a watery map. I wonder what we should play on a PB61 type map. France? China? Inca? PRO Mali? Rome would still be good I guess though they also start with fishing. Thinking about it more, on a land map I'd prefer a civ with an economic bonus. None of the UU really matter enough with the possible exception of cataphracts but they come with their own issues.

[Charriu]

When did the observatory change? I'm looking at the civilopedia for 2.0 (PB59 version):


Cairo indeed played Zulu, but with Tokugawa (AGG/PRO), when PRO was a bit too powerful.

I checked this ingame and yeah I messed up. The Salon should be back to what it was in BtS (just +1 free artist). If anybody should choose France I will fix this before the game starts. I will also inform the others.

[Commodore]

Start? Mebe?

[civac2]

Not sure this is conducive to Spain.

[Tarkeel]

Initial thoughts:
All three starting foodgroups are present, so all starting techs should be viable. Might indicate mirrored starts?
Only three resources, so pretty barren by RB standards.
Starting location isn't hooked up to rivers, so you need roads (or moving) for initial trade routes, slightly lessening the allure of PRO
Only two hills and six forests, so India is less viable

Going with fishing might not be the worst option here... I'll try to get some starts in later tonight.

[Tarkeel]

I've done some very rough first tests:
Dutch WB First; WB->Worker->Settler T29, Mining->BronzeWorking->Wheel->Pottery T30
Dutch worker first; Worker->WB->Warrior->Settler T29, Mining->BronzeWorking->Hunting->Wheel T31
Spain WB First; WB->Worker->Settler T29, Agriculture->Mining->BronzeWorking->Hunting T29
Spain worker first; Worker->WB->Warrior->Settler T29, Agriculture->Mining->BronzeWorking->Hunting->Wheel T31

Spain looks playable. Workboat first is less constrained by tech, but worker first might be stronger if we can finaggle the needed worker techs.