Imperium One - Off to a Flying Start

[Sirian]

I read your report on Monday but somehow missed replying. Trying to do too many things at once.

Missing out on almost 50kbc in production... yeah. I've ended games with that much or more in the bank, but chiefly when strong with Mineral Rich planets who stayed on reserves rather than shipbuilding for long stretches when I had no strategic use for fleets (teching, avoiding wars for diplo reasons, etc). I've been known to drop 20k chunks into artifact planets to speed research over extended periods without having to babysit. (The game applies only up to the max each turn, but remembers transferred monies, so you can safely transfer a lot and let the game dole it out for you, doing all the makework, if you're sure you want to spend a big chunk over time).

Yep, room to improve. That's good, though, right? You've got a way to go to outgrow the game.


- Sirian

[Erick the Red]

Thanks for the kind words. I did chuckle when I read you talking about building too many missile bases. :D I do wonder about the trouble that others ran into facing large enemy fleets and losing colonies that I never faced. It's a bit sobering when I recall how I almost engaged the Silicoids at the start since I wanted to try out my gatling laser ships.

I didn't really grok the diplomacy aspect of the game until I retried my failed attempt at Smegged's challenge, so I didn't pay much attention to Silicoids who were allied or at war with. I wish I had, as I wonder why they left me alone. I did not make colonizing the hostile worlds around me a priority as I was claiming more fertile Meklar worlds, so the Silicoids would have had room to expand. I also wonder if my high fleet strengh deterred them from attacking.

As it was, the Meklar were the only force which had fleets more powerful than me when I engaged them. The 8 years of "slow but steady progress" against the Meklar were me whittling down their escort ships and then their few huge ships with my missile boats in repeated engagements. The combats mostly took place around their rim worlds without bases, so my core planets never felt threatened.

I finished the game before the post about using Screen Thief to take shots (and started before your post discouraging people from variants). I'll have some next time.

[Charis]

Imperium 1 of Realms Beyond Civilization - "Off to a Flying Start"
"An average beginning in an average galaxy with an average species."

Well that sounds super for a below average player!

-- Let's try this again, I tried to post this Mon night and apparently clicked off somewhere
else after a 'Preview Post' that I thought was an 'Add Reply' ! :rolleyes:

The Imperium name seems to derive from our species, the Alkari, excellent flyers.
Specifically, they get a +3 bonus to defense and initiative on their ships and excel at
combat. They're excellent in Propulsion, though poor at force fields. The Alkari (birds)
have enmity with the Mrrshan (cats), and a dislike for the Klackons (insects) and the
Sakkra (lizards). It's a medium size map with five opponents. This game was played
very shortly after the announcement, before I got an understanding of combat in
the OSG1 succession game (and it shows! I also had no way to make screenshots at
the time, so this report will be textual, and an abbreviation of my turn notes.
If I go into detail at some minor point, it's probably in hopes that I'll get feedback
how my understanding was on target, or how it needs to be improved :P Let's rock!

2300 - Turn 0 - We start in a middle position, right side, 3 o'clock at Altair.
We'll want to study this map a bit. Our other foes are: Meklar, Silicoid,
Sakkra, Klackan and Mrrshan. Average?? *ALL* our racial foes are present, this
is not going to be a peaceful game! 8-o There seems to be five other clusterings
of foes going by the yellow stars, including one right above us without much room to
expand. If we can beat whoever that is to the border planets we should have an
advantage. One of the races looks like it may have *four* yellow stars right near
each other. We have a Nebula with two red to our left. There are precisely two
stars in immediate colonization range, a green up top, and a blue below.
Hmm, that yellow up North - if that's a homeworld, it has nothing within 3 parsecs
and they're toast. The green seems so much more likely to be a decent planet for
life that I make my first key decision - sending the colony ship there right away.
The two scouts will split up, one going south and the other to the north purple.

2303 - Turn 3 - We find Kailis, and ack! It's just a "Minimal" planet? Colonize now
or hope that the blue world is much better? I don't think a one turn delay will hurt,
and so hold on. It's seen to be Quayal, a Desert 40. We'll colonize Kailis next turn.

2304 - Time to send some colonists to our new guy. 61/100 vs 2/45, this begs to send
about 16 to Kailis, and so we do. We next see purple star is Mobis, Ultra rich with
triple industry pts. Down south Malaar is Jungle, a very nice 75 planet. Scout heads
for the central Nebula, but we'll want a scout to blockade Malaar soon.

We immediately make a Scout2 ship (cheaper although same) and a Colony replacement.
Since at this point we can spew 5 scout2's in a turn from Altair, we shall. I like
to know my region, and to discourage others from scouting.

Soon we see that north yellow is free, "Primodius", a Terran 100! Sweet! We'll leave
the scout there. Alas, to reach it, we need to extend our range to 4. Time to open
up the research tree with a few coins from Kailis. I also order up one more scout2 from
our capital to finish the initial blockade. Then after factories improve a bit we'll
want a colony.

2307 - Bingo, Bootis is Terrain 95 not far from Kailis. That's a huge need for two quick
colonists. It would take 9 yrs for a colony now, so we continue factory focus.

Arietis in mid-nebula is void.

2313 - Pop growth is slowing on homeland, and we could really stand to have more planets.
This seems like in Civ3 do you focus on letting your capital grow or do you get out
settlers? Aside from a granary, the answer is clear, and we're ordering up 2 ships.
Next turn scouts find north Incedius, an ocean planet, and just outside nebula,
Laan, a rich but toxic world. Bootis will open up 4 new stars to scout, so we pump
4 scout2's and next turn send to Bootis. ( Note later: well, letting the homeworld
grow in factories is like a granary, factory, coal plant, library and marketplace all
in one, and I'm more prone now to wait on colonization until more factories are done)

2320 - First tech choices:
Computers: Deep Space Scanner or Battle Mark II. I take DSS, prefering intel to +tohit.
Propulsion: Deuterium Fuel cells (range 5) - Score!!
Weapons: Hand Lasers or Gattling Lasers. I take the gropo tech for defense.
Then next turn:
Construction: Reduce Industrial waste 80% (oh good! I'm not getting Sirian luck!
Force Field: Class II Deflectors
Planetary: Terraforming +10. It's all good!

I'm prioritizing Propulsion then Construction, but need to focus more on industry
on Kailis.

2323 - Bootis is founded. Transport 32 from cap, 16 from Kailis.
Our first contact soon after that, as the blue central star is met with Silicoid
resistance - Denubius, yellow. Also, Gorra is a dead planet, blue.

First contact then is silicoid, who refer to themselves as godlike. Hrmpf.
They have five planets, not uncommon I think, for the silicoids. They're neutral.

2329 - Another colony ready, but the 3 we would most like to hit will need the propulsion.
tech to arrive. It can sit and wait, or hit the desert world. We do the latter, and
swap Altair back to industry. Past the nebula we soon find the gray star is Thrax,
toxic, and the Denubius (yellow) is inferno. Bad for us, good for silicons.

2331 - Qayyal is founded, and we get our first GNN report, the ranking of population:
1. Mrrshan (boo!!! 2. Alkari (yay! 3. Meklar 4. Silicoid 5. Sakkara 6. Klackon.

Bootis can spare 18 to transport to the new colony. Just a few turns later we learn
the Silicoid empire is pulling ahead a bit on territory.

2340 - Altair hits 200 factories, 95 pop. This means a temporary spike in research,
to be followed by several colony ships. Terraforming hits first, +10M. I'll do the
adjustment manually. New options: Controlled Dead Environ, or Death Spores. I'm
not big into WMD and choose the former. Sooner after we score Deuterium and the
next one is no choice, Nuclear Engines (warp 2 and more maneuveable)

Shoot, silicoids come to the northern ocean planet as a colony ship escorted by
a whale. They must have pre-scouted? Incendius is added to my "contested" list.
On that turn construction hits with Ind Waste 80%, and our next choice is between
Improved Industrial tech 8 and Duralloy armor. We choose the former as we're somewhat
behind in factories.

2352 - We find our very first artifact planet - Helos the Red, Arid 60. It's range:
In same year we found on Terran Primodius. Altair hits 220 factories, 108 pop.
Our colony ship that just popped out is IMMEDIATELY sent to Helos.

Ruh roh, I look more closely at Silicoids. They're aggressive expansionist in alliance
with the Mrrshan! I make a trade deal to improve reltions. 125gpt, no need of toys.
Worse, next year they come calling at our artifact planet which has a colony en route!
Unarmed? No 8-\ Colony ship and whale. I was hoping not to get into conflict THIS
early, especially with a Mrrshan ally.

New colony ship heads to Maalor, Jungle planet to our south. Next turn our lone scout
at Thrax turns back an unescorted silicoid colony ship. Then Nuclear Engines come in
and we can choose between warp 3 (sublight) engines and Range 7 (Dotamite xtals).
Both are quite nice, but I'll take range first.

2359 - Small blue star south is Simius, a steppe 40, Green one (Paladia) is inferno 15 while
small blue is Proteus also inferno 40. Next turn, way up north a whale keeps us from
scouting a small green, while east we find void Rhilus. Jungle Maalor is founded.

2361 - We run into Meklars to the south while scouting. If we can get our colony ship
to Simius it will make contact. We also see our first Mrrshan flyby.
Then SCORE! Omicron, a Terran planet that is Fertile! We order up a colony.
Soon after, and near it, is Drakka, Desert 35. (Note later: Sirian denoted Omicron
as a critical planet that would be likely be important to grab, so I'm glad to both
recognize this and pull it off :P )

2368 - Man, these guys are aggressive! Silicoids send an ARMED Colony ship that boots
our scout out and claims. Worse, the Melklars come at our scout at Sirius, which
is a key stepping stone to the fertile Terran. GNN then reports the Silicoids are
outstripping all other races with 13 colonies. This brings up the first election!
(Note later: I was totally caught off guard by this style of aggression, as these
undeclared skirmishes have no counterpart in civ 3. In retrospect, I let the AI just
plain walk all over me, and I made NO use of our specialty.)

The contenders are the silicoids and... us! There will be 21 votes.
Meklars abstain 2, Sili self vote 5, Sakkara abstain 3, Klackon abstain 2, and the
Mrrshan abstain 4. This lets us vote for *silicoids* to improve relations with no
fear of a loss. The Meklars respond? state? they want NO CONTACT with the filthy
Akari. Oops??? Odd, they do have contact with us. Xenophobic technologists. Makes
sense. Neutral (while Sili's are amiable now after vote). We set up a 200gpt trade
with them. They have range 4 tech and some ECM, but nothing else. We pass.
We're last in tech, on par with Sili on fleet strength, which is amazing since we
have ONLY scouts! Ouch on their poaching of Simius. That leaves us with 3 colony ships
flying around with zero places to settle. 8-\
(Note later: Oh my, is this crying out for aggressive action. When the game turned out
as it did, I recognized I was too passive, but was almost entirely uncertain as to when
I should have done something, and how. The other reports are helping with this, but
I can see that direct action should have been taken NOW, if not earlier)

2373 - Second vote, also lots of abstentions except he picks up the Msshar vote.
We cannot vote for him now, and choose to abstain.

2379 - Having designed a huge colony ship to fit on board extra reserve fuel cells,
we send it out now towards the Fertile Terran in lower right corner.
Next turn I design a warbird, large size, with extra range, scanners, titanium ii
armor, lasers, nuclear wpns, and mark i computer, and aim to get one in most systems.
Then Improved Ind Tech 8 arrives, next choices: Duralloy armor, battle suits,
improved tech 7, automated repair. we'll go battle suits, but alter priorities.
Next turn in Wpns, Hand Lasers come in and we go for Hyper-X rockets (other choice
was Ion cannon) Dotomite Crystals immediately follow giving range 7. New choices
include Uridium range 8 and Energy Pulsar. I like the distinctive killing potential
of the latter, and go for it. (Note later: And you didn't use it???!!

2383 - We scrap the original Scout and make a scout 3 with one laser and the better range.
2384 - We're quite proud to settle on Omicron, the fertile planet.
Next turn we found on desert planet, and violent quake hits Ajax of silicoids.
Then control dead comes in, options are control toxic and and improved terraforming +30
Tough call there, but let's do terraforming.
2399 - Class II deflectors arrive, only choice is class III.
2400 - The nice Hyper-X arrives, options are gattling laser, ion cannon, ion rifle,
and neutron blaster. Tis time for an election! 29 votes. Meklar toss 4 to sili,
they self vote 10, sakarra and klaxon abstain, msshar vote 4. These clowns are a
hairs breath from winning, I'm afraid. I abstain. Meklars are relaxed to us, sili are
even amiable. I've yet to meet Msshar or others!

This is a big decision point for me in this game.
- Each vote, though I'm gaining in tech and increasing production, I find myself falling
behind in the vote and if one more abstaining bloc goes for the silicoids, I've lost.
- I'm *definitely* not taking advantage of the Alkari distinciveness, quick fighters
- I have virtually no fleet, although the Silicoid fleet doesn't seem too huge either
- I was the first to find artifact planet but it was poached from me
- The silicoids are allied with the Meklars - if I hit one I'll have a two front war
and my defense bases are hideous, one per planet basically.
- If I'm definitely behind in tech and military might, and if the game favors the
defender, doesn't it makes sense to forget trying to build a fleet now that will all
too quickly become obsolete, and instead go whole-hog on tech?
- I just don't know, the game experience to know if I'm dire, facing a normal situation,
or one about to spiral out of control, is wholy lacking.

I think I'm going to stay the peaceful course, though if it fails I may for my own sake
comeback to this year and try another path!

(Note later: I chose unwisely! :P Actually, I had insufficient knowledge of combat
to have made this work, but the situation called out for a perimeter stand up of
bases followed by a mini-SOD to claim several silicoid systems, especially artifact
planet. What I missed here is that you don't build up a fleet and sit on it, you
build it up ONLY to use it in immediate battle, and for a specific goal. The only
thing I wonder at this point is if I'm *already* lost, or if this point would be
a great time to go on the offensive and see it work.)

There are two things I better do short term, and one longer term.
- Get some spies in place just to see what techs are around, or if any weaknesses
- Sign NAP with Meklars, and check for better trade deals
- Longer term, I need some very long range missions and colony to meet other races.
(Note later: I did zero espionage this game, not knowing how, or how much to spend,
and fearing the consequences of getting caught. Espionage seems a BIG part of the game)

2401 - Energy pulsars arrive, an excellent weapon. For next tech choice, warp 3,
distance 8, or 9. We choose 9 as we want some long range scouting.
2402 - Ok, got one puny spy for each. Meklars have nothing 'significant' up on us, Mark III
Silicoid compueters are at Mark IV. Construction is duralloy armor but not much else.
FF is lvl 3 and personal deflector. Planetology has Death Environ and Bio antidote.
Propulsion still warp 1, range 7, inertial stabilizer. Wpns: Gattling laser,
Hyper-V and -X, and Fusion bomb. Nothing too scary. Hey, they do NOT have Energy Pulsar.
Looking again, Meklars have Death Spores, controlled barren and dead, weak on wpns.
Oops ya, almost forget, I'm paying ridiculous mainenanace on my 3 unused colony
ships. I can scrap and re-build cheaper.
2403 - Deep space scanner arrives, we start the 3-factory per pop tech.
2405 - I won my first space battle!! I saw a colony ship heading for a hostile planet
in my inner ring, and dispatched a warbird there (sort of a cruiser). It was actually
a slow crawling beat down, but we ended up victorious. I see a few more similar
colony ships and am putting at least a warbird now in place instead of a scout
in unclaimed systems. Next turn I see a 'shark' heading toward the place where my
warbird just defended. (Note later: Lol, a cruiser beat up a colony ship, that's
newsworthy??? Hehe! Still, this WAS literally my first combat at was exciting)
2408 - I couldn't get a warbird to a southern star in time and must accede to a colony
ship. GNN then reports the silicoids have 18 star systems and if unstopped will reign.
There are more sharks in the water, literally. I propose to Melkars an alliance.
They don't consider the offer fair. How about Non aggression with silicoids?
2410 - Improved terraforming+30, which we make use of immediately.
Controlled toxic and radiated are both options. The price diff seems small, so I go
for toxic right away.
2418 - Battle suits come in and we're offered the nice Improved Repair, and go for it.
Also, our planets are done terraforming and can grow.
2419 - I realize my weed. Mobas is colonized right under my warbird without a fight,
thanks to the non-aggression pack. At least several sharks go home.
2420 - Range *9* comes in, time for a new design! Choice is tough - warp 6 ion drives,
warp 3 sublight, or instellar space gate. We'll try the star gates.
2425 - Election time. (Eep! well, at least we completed terraforming)
35 votes total, 4 from Meklar to sili, 13 for self, Sakkra abstain (3), Klackons 2,
Mrrshan 4, bringing total to 23 of 35, or 65.7%!! *ONE* vote short!
Alas, silicoids are pulling away on planets and hence population.
Next year Neutron blaster complete, we start a streaming wpn, the Graviton beam.
(Note later: I was extremely relieved to see not one but several 'expert players'
see this happen, getting to within 1 vote of losing early! I may not actually be doing
THAT horrendous a job so far (???!???) but the others knew, and I didn't, that turning
around the situation absolutely required strong offensive action. I knew diplo wins
were a common part of the game, but what I didn't realize is that there seems to be
NO 'pacifist' option in this game. If you won't fight for what's rightfully yours,
others will take it and you'll have no recourse. Kinda real-world in that respect!

2428 - Controlled radiation arrives, none too soon. Good choices coming in,
Death Spores, Atm Terraforming and cloning. Atmospheric sounds best right now.
Alas, we're too late on radiation now that the silicoid have poached all the planets.
2430 - Gate arrives, new choices are high energy focus along with the warp 6 drives.
2437 - At long last, Paladia is founded on Inferno soil.
Then, in construction, automated repair is done, improved industrial tech 6 and open,
we choose to go for duralloy. Meklars let us know the Non-agression pact was made
in haste and their needs have changed. They must expand to grow. Eep!
This is simultaneous with three ships, Ajax, Nemesis and Tornado heading toward Paladia!
Omicron next door was working on a star gate. I think it's time to design a dreadnought!
We design the "Hammer" class Huge ship. Auto repair, Energy Pulsar, Battle Scanner,
16 Heavy blast cannons, 6 Hyper-X rockets, 10 neutron blasters, 13 hvy lasers.
(Note later: wow! Nice ship Charis!! Why didn't you go pound the ground, mix it up??!
2443 - Silicoids voice "A cry has wrung out throughout the galaxy for expansion!
I have no choice but to cancel our non-aggression pact!" (eep!
They're asking for the hammer to fall! Ok, I wanted peace, but if they're going to
insist, we'll go down fighting! A report shows Mark VI computers and repulsor beam.
These guys do, however, seem to lack some of the toys we have.
I design the devastator for offensive action, with Auto repair, best computer/shield,
12 nuclear bombs, 1 heavy cannon, 2 neutron blasters, and a laser.
2444 - Class III deflector shields available, Class V (or IV optionally) researched next.
2445 - Our first hammer comes off the line at Omicron. As we won't be able to do anything
in 5yrs, I'll continue the fleet buildup for 5 yrs, so if a losing vote is coming
I won't get over excited.
2446 - Oh my that silicoid fleet is near Bootis. IBT - Yup, here they come, 1 round
before my dreadnought arrives. What do they have?
5 Polaris with Death Spores, Inertial Stabilizer, 4 Sharks with Hyper-V and Death Spores,
5 Whale with 5 Hyper-X, 3 Mako with fusion bomb and gattling laser, and 4 colony ships!
And they've got initiative over me. I have no idea how to do real combat, and probably
am wrong to do this, but let it go auto. It didn't matter, it was a total outclassing.
My 2 warbirds and 1 devastator could do nothing. They ignored the ships and just
wiped out the planet completely, then ate the ships for dessert. Ignoring bio-antidote
was a mistake, and so was thinking I could stay at peace :P
What great timing on their part too, *just* before an election, wow!
I'll see what a devastator/hammer can do vs one of their worlds next.
2447 - Hammer arrives and moves three times before they can, frags one ship in one
shot then watches them all retreat. I don't bomb the planet, as *MY* factories are
intact. But we'll need gropo troops? How does that work?
Improved robotics comes in, we start mark IV.
2448 - Hammer reaches the artifact world. We beat it down over half, but I think ran
into a time limit. Our auto heal was incredible - we took essentially no dmg instead
of dying in 6 turns. At Laan we knocked it down to its last shield, then time! Drats!
Even worse, it's election time... here's the results: 37 votes total, which ain't good,
4 from Meklar, 15 self, 3 from the previously abstaining Ksharra, Klackons abstain,
4 from the cats and instead of abtaining, I vote for myself for the first time.

The council has chosen Geode of the Silicoids to be the High Master of the New
Republic?! 8-o Do we accept this decision??? Heck *NO*!

The sharing of techs doesn't help. Something utterly wicked is fraggin my hammer,
perhaps the Merv-pack missles (or whatever they're called).

2557 - Kailis outer defenses are breached and 42 transport get in. We manage to JUST
defeat them to hold off against the forces of evil. The silicoids give us a msg that
we're weak and about to be eliminated.
2575 - Altair itself, our glorious homeworld, is destroyed by death spores. We capitulate.

Fun game, although the ending wasn't 'fun' in the typical sense
I'm not sure how 'average' that was either. I learned quite a bit, but more in the SG
and combat articles/tutorial, as I come back and look over what I did. As I finished the
game I felt pretty clueless on how to do any better. I knew military action would be
a part of improving, but unclear how. I'm still unclear, but at least I have some thoughts,
and can self-nit a lot of things in this report. That's good, right?!

Thanks to all who played, and for Sirian for getting this off the ground.
And to any who read my newbie plea to play... wasn't that worthwhile? And if you
ignored my comments - shame on you!! You missed an excellent game I told you Charis
would not steer you wrong! Try Imperium 2!

Charis

[Drasca]

I promise to stop the scolding soon.

Having designed a huge colony ship to fit on board extra reserve fuel cells

Now I do applaud you for making an innovative epic sized solution to solve a problem... but the cost isn't worth it! HUGE?!?!?! You could fit a warship in there. Several dozen. Hundreds of fighters. With that, you could *take* Simius. In simple economic terms, the marginal cost is too great. The alternatives are so much better.

2352 - We find our very first artifact planet - Helos the Red, Arid 60. It's range:
In same year we found on Terran Primodius.

Looking over my notes for comparison, I've settled Primordius in 2352, and I was very excited over doing so early too. VIP on my list. Scouted it... 30 years ago in 2323. You decided to push south, while I went exclusively north, and that's understandable.

You got very unlucky with the Silicoid-Meklar Alliance. I don't think anyone else had experienced that monstrosity. Utterly evil really. 2368 is about when Meklars turned nasty on me too--->though I started it :laugh:

As for Espionage h34r: You have to gauge your friends/enemies will turn on you. Sometimes the paranoid person is right, and they'll turn on you regardless of what you do---then espionage is worth it. Sometimes you wish to prod and goad your opponent into :war: I picked a fight with the Meklars. I almost picked a fight with the Silicoids, but remained good friends until I was so powerful I nearly overshadowed them. "Losing" is the last thing to fear. Personally I didn't manage to keep away the toxic/radiated worlds from the Silicoids end after all oops and I completely misgauged my Silicoids (though fearing they'd attack would be prefectly correct in every other Imperium game here... they simply didn't in mine). Didn't tick them off spying, not completely, though I was tempted to push them over the edge.

Bravo for your game and showing off what really happened mistakes, fearing to make mistakes, and all... and hopefully I'm first post to reply! Unless Sirian beats me to it.

Edit: nope nope, he wasn't here. har har. First reply! and I never did do an end scolding tag... so I'll leave it up for others to scold your

[Justus_II]

Looks like you got quite the welcome to MoO! I'm glad you mentioned that this was Pre-SG, because your SG turns have been great, you're obviously well on your way along the learning curve!

Just a few comments from your report, you may have already realized these, but you asked for feedback. You mention at one point being suprised that the Silicoids were rated the same on fleet strength, when you had only scouts, but Colony ships count for fleet strength too, that's probably the reason. Also, your first Warbird design, you mentioned having extra range, and Titanium II armor, those are both space hogs, usually not the best value especially early on, so it limits the weapons you can carry. In fact, extended range for a warship is a luxury that I rarely use, unless I am trying to blockade planets I can't reach yet. Once a colony is founded (like Omicron) it is a range extender for you, and defending ships don't need extra range. Speaking of range, a couple times you talk about redesigning a ship with the new range tech. Your current range is a 'capability', not a system. If you have Range 5 tech, then all ships have range 5, even if they were built when you only had range 3. Unlike just about everything else on ships, that is one thing that 'updates' itself, and you don't have to redesign a ship to take advantage of it.

As for when to go on the offensive, you were correct to pick up the voting trend, and realize that something needed to be done. If I see a close vote, (especially where a few abstentions could have turned it against me) I know I need to expand. Getting 1/3 of the votes yourself is a key threshold, as then you know you are safe. If I don't have 1/3 yet, I try to look at the trend. If it was a close vote, but I have lots of new colonies that are standing up, I'm not too worried, as I should be able to grow into that 1/3 blocking position. But if the vote's close, and I'm boxed in territory-wise (which it sounds like you were), then I'm gonna have to take the battle to the enemy. Vs. the Silicoids, ground combat is usually a decent option, as their lower pop growth rate means you can win a war of attrition on the ground, as long as you're current in gropo techs. BUT, you need to have some bases for your home worlds first, as they love to use BioWeapons (as you and most of us saw). If I don't think I have the power to capture and hold planets, though, a scorched earth rampage can be a good way to even out the vote, and in your case would probably have bought you some time. Just build a cheap, fast bomber (Alkari's excel with small ships, very hard to hit), build a LOT of them, and "hit em where he aint!" Look for his back-line worlds while his fleet is massing at the front, and just burn planets. (Did I mention to build a lot of bases on your own worlds? I'm still trying to learn that lesson myself! :rolleyes: ) Just remember, each planet is roughly a vote (It's actually one vote per 100 pop, IIRC), and it should only take a few to buy you some breathing room. You might even get really lucky, and he will have angered someone else along the way (even his 'allies' can turn on him), and doing a ton of damage will win you some free votes when you least expect it!

Anyway, hope that helps, I know you may have already realized all this from the other reports and the SG. Definitely also showcases how each of the races have an entirely different 'feel' to them, and dictate different strategys, unlike in Civ3, where the traits/UUs give civs a little different flavor, but still play along the same lines. I think that's actually one of the things that gives MoO so much replayability! :D

[Sirian]

The notes from later are interesting! I think you're starting to grok a lot of things.

Here are a few points:

* Warp engines are important! These all have different names, so unlike most of the tech lines, they can be hard to recognize on sight. Look for "blah blah ENGINES". That's your cue. Nuclear Engines, SubLight Engines, Ion Engines, etc. These make your ships go faster. N = engine speed, fleets move at the pace of the slowest ship in the fleet, N parsecs per turn. So warp two is DOUBLE the speed of warp one! Oh, and transports move at (N - 1) so you need warp three before they start to move faster. I kept reading your choices to extend range, and to extend range, and to extend range, bypassing ship engines, and I thought of that, er, incident in the, um, SG, which I can't talk about here yet as that is classified and not for the eyes of Team Two, but you know the time, when you could have put the new engine on that design and you didn't? And you got the first signal?

* One base per planet is not quite sufficient. That's a WEE bit short. Yep. Your comments about bases on the perimeter and "real world" "if you won't fight for what's rightfully yours" are spot on. It is, in fact, possible to play pacifist now and then, but not defenseless.

* Espionage CAN BE quite vital. It's really a choice, though. Doing spying really ticks off the AI. When they come complaining... that's bad. But just catching your spies has some effect. And if you spy, some will get caught. Period. Ergo, spying is one of those elements that will take a long time to master, and involves more risk-taking than other aspects. I recently completed a game without a single espionage attempt. You will have to play this game for some time if you hope to fully grasp all the subtleties of the spy model. It is perhaps the finest achievement in the game in terms of game balance.

* As you learn more about the tech tree, the choices to be made will become more interesting and more fun. I definitely got the "well I don't know what any of these do, let's pick this one" aspect of your research in this game. Totally understandable from where you stood at the time. As you say, you can self-nit now as you have learned a bit more, and could continue (and could expect to progress) with more experience.

* Standing up the homeworld is a good idea. If you understand the game mechanics end to end, you can find useful alternatives. Remember my decision to build long range warships in Kitten Kaboodle? Certain techs can be worth grabbing quickly, too, in some situations. The first, or second, colony ship can be launched faster if started sooner. Etc. But those are finer points. In general, yes, stand up planets to full industry and population, then turn them to production (until terraforming increases the pop max, in which case you "add a university and a bank" to your list of already built "library and market and harbor". So to speak). It's really the same sort of deal. New techs enable more to be built, more total productivity from your production center.

* Look at my fight for Laan. Study that closely, from the time I first mentioned I'd have to guard it, to my choice to beeline to the environment tech that would let me settle it sooner, to fighting off the Silicoid, then losing the colony to a Klackon SoD, then refounding it, threatening the Silicoid to chase away his poaching fleet, and having to tailor and stand up my missile boats to deal with the second Klackon fleet. All told, a lot of steps to fight for that planet, and all of them had to be done well enough, more or less, or someone else might have gotten the planet. You can LOSE planets and not end up in hot war, but if you GAIN planets by taking them away from the AI, they will always declare war. Fleets, no. You can attack their fleets, and they won't be happy but it usually only harms relations. You can attack planets but not destroy or take them, makes the AI VERY VERY ANGRY but still may not lead to war. If you destroy or capture a planet, that's always a hot war. Period. So pretty much, you have the choice not to make it a hot war if you lose a planet, but the AI will always do so if it loses a planet. Fleets are a lesser matter. So with this in mind, the right time to fight for a planet is in the air. Prevent them from landing! Once they plant a flag, you have to go hot war to take it away. Prior to that, the AI still recognizes the system as "disputable". In some cases, they will even back down or avoid challenging you if their view of your reputation exceeds their current pressures and variables telling them to expand. That usually means if you whoop on them enough, sometimes they "learn" and switch from trying to beat you down to trying to suck up like a toady. See my "Back in the Saddle" report for how I beat down the Mrrshans after some intense early game fights and then had them as a reliable ally later in the game, because they were too afraid to cross me. Also, sometimes they respect an orbiting fleet as a "claim". That's why keeping a scout in orbit early helps. It not only chases off unarmed ships, but can actually deter the AI from even sending a fleet there in the first place. Sometimes.

* Ignoring bio toxin antidote may indeed have been a mistake. Only... it wasn't in the player's tech tree this game. So you'd have had to acquire it from an AI to get it. (Trade for it, steal it, or loot it with gropos).

* If you lose in the high council, you can of course refuse to accept it, and enter Final War. From the perspective of somebody trying to do the best thing for his people, that can be the ultimate in "choosing unwisely" as losing means extermination of all your kind. It's a really cool game feature. Kind of like, "Well, you lost diplomatically, but if you want to continue on with Always War mode, with your opponents sharing their techs and research gains, then what the hey, we'll let you. Uh... good luck." Final Wars are winnable, but my success rate is not especially encouraging. (It's too low for me to have wanted to keep precise track, if you know what I mean. Not zero, but... low.)

* The variant potential of this game is untapped and unknown. Imagine taking some options off the table, or enforcing others. "Must use bioweapons to cleanse all the filthy aliens from the universe." "We don't believe in flying bathtubs. Only sleek small fighters will be used in our navy." "Hostile environments? We don' need no steeking hostile environments." Etc etc. Surely you don't want to miss out on these kinds of wackiness. "Use of the 'Artillery' warship requires the presence of a 'Musketman' escort in order to 'fire' the 'Artillery'."

:P


- Sirian

[Charis]

Thanks for the comments, Justus, Sirian, much appreciated!

I was, of course, completely lmao on the musketman reference :laugh:

"Pepe in space?!?!" :wub:

Charis

[Sirian]

I didn't know how much participation we'd see. I didn't want, say, 2/3rds of the total players playing variants because Average is below their skill/interest level. We got plenty enough normal games for me to have the data I need to judge the next few events, and for new players to see a good spread of results from the experienced, to help them get a sense of what to do to be successful. So it was good there were a couple of variantish games played, too.

- Sirian

[Bam-Bam]

Just thought I'd ask the question everyone (but you and Gris :P ) is thinking. If you are planning on opening next week, I hope you stick to the three week playtime. Silly things like vacation getting in the way of MoO, you know how it is...

Seriously--this game had an excellent turnout, thanks in no small part to your site, reports, and clear enthusiasm for the game. Congratulations for a successful launch--now on to the rest of the voyage!

[Sirian]

Woops. I don't know how I overlooked replying here. I read the report like three different times to refresh my memory so I could reply. I wish I could claim Charis-button-confusion and that I had previewed a reply instead of posting it, but no.

Anyway, it was interesting to see you press forward on both fronts. Most players went whole hog one or the other. Also interesting to see all the AI's hanging in as long as they did. You were rather even handed until the final push.

Attacking the (Silicoid) Poor planet first is simply classic. I can't count how many times I've done that on impossible. Often times that's a great move.


Did you and Griselda ever coordinate about whether you would compile Imperial results for us? If you're slated to do that, or if not but you still would like to, this would be the timing for it for this first game. Not much scoring to do (read: none) but still a list of names to gather.


- Sirian