[PB81] Lurkers from the Deep

[Tarkeel]

At this point I'm mainly looking at which map shapes look fun. The initial plan was to keep the overal shape with minor tweaks, but I'm not adverse to moving some capitals if that's necessary, or balancing out land quality (like in map 4).

Will probably roll a new batch tonight.

[Tarkeel]

Rolled a few more maps to get an even 10 options:

Map 7:


Ever so slightly unfair to all of the players, so maybe it evens out?

Map 8:


Orange is maybe best moved to the north-east, but it does look interesting as it is.

Map 9:


Black definitely needs to be moved to the southwest (which needs to be freened up slightly)

Map 10:


One of my new favorites: small and brutish

[Tarkeel]

I've started looking at Map10 in more detail.

Distances between players look about right, and everyone has both back- and front-lines to expand into. Some start-specific pictures with notes:



A/Black: Moved start SE to be on the coast



B/Orange: Move start S for more land; probably keep (and maybe expand) the islands as that start's backlines.



C/Blue: Keep start, add an island to the east



D/Green: Move start SW to be on the coast; remove the eastern islands and add one closer to capital

The starts will be balanced, and I'll make sure strategics and luxuries are resonable, but I plan to leave the land mainly untouched. Maybe some foods needs to be adjusted, but that will be the end.

[scooter]

I missed the first batch of maps, but I see this now. I'll stick them in buckets and explain myself on a few of them.

No thanks
Map 1
Map 5 - too much editing necessary IMO
Map 6
Map 10


Maybe
Map 3 - think this is just a worse version of Map 2? But on its own it's fine
Map 8 - If you're willing to overhaul the top-right quadrant and place Orange there, this may be the winner. But maybe challenging to do this without screwing Orange. But I think this is the fairest map shape.
Map 9 - same as Map 8, except even more work needed. Cool shape though


Contenders
Map 2
Map 4 - only hesitation is yellow HAS to go through purple while everyone else has options
Map 7 - high potential, but I think also high potential to annoy players. I think it's really interesting for sure, and I like the idea of the "continent" essentially breaking down into 2 duels with an inland sea. At least, for this game setup I think this would be OK.


So I guess I like 2, 4, and 7. However, I definitely see big appeal in 8/9 with some more work. In general the "4 corners" design is the fairest.

[scooter]

No thanks
<snip>
Map 10

Will elaborate on this because I realized I cross-posted with a deeper dive of this map. My instant reaction mostly revolves around seeing 2 players near tundra/ice and 2 players who aren't. If that could be mitigated a bit, I wouldn't mind it so much.

[Qgqqqqq]

What was the brief re natural vs balancing? If there's any expectation of balance then I think you need to ensure everyone has two neighbours - though one could be a watery border. Having only one expansion opportunity is too different geopolitically imo.

[Tarkeel]

What was the brief re natural vs balancing? If there's any expectation of balance then I think you need to ensure everyone has two neighbours - though one could be a watery border. Having only one expansion opportunity is too different geopolitically imo.

My initial thoughts had them as mirrors of each others, but the more I think about it the less I like that idea. Current plan is to roll two different pangea maps and merge them into the same map as different continents, and add islands as necessary. Starts and resources will be balanced within their continent.

My intention was to leave this map pretty natural. I do agree that some form of neighbor-balance is needed, but I still like #7 as all the players are shafted in different ways. It probably does need an archipelago connection in the south, so that black can reach orange at the very least.

I think both #2 and #4 are ok on neighbor, although for #4 yellow will only have water contact with green.

Currently leaning towards #7 for the vets and #10 for the greens.

[Gavagai]

Is it just me or Green is fucked in Seven? Just too small expansion space compared to others.

[Tarkeel]

Is it just me or Green is fucked in Seven? Just too small expansion space compared to others.

That is indeed how green is shafted in that map. Blue is the piggy in the middle, black is isolated and orange has pretty dry surroundings (and likely to be rushed by green). It is a very different map that the players are unlikely to expect, but also pretty brutal.

[Gavagai]

Is it just me or Green is fucked in Seven? Just too small expansion space compared to others.

That is indeed how green is shafted in that map. Blue is the piggy in the middle, black is isolated and orange has pretty dry surroundings (and likely to be rushed by green). It is a very different map that the players are unlikely to expect, but also pretty brutal.

I really like the idea of giving everyone their own type of challenge but I think Black's position is by far superior to others.
And yes, be ready for people to complain. In particular, wherever you put Superdeath on Seven, he will be bitching about that with some justification.