American Politics Discussion Thread

[superdeath]

Not even taking into account that i despise religious-based countries, its more that id rather those 2 just full-duke it out and whomever wins... wins. Because of the british its nearly impossible to have actual lasting peace in the middle east, so i figure the easiest way to still get that is just back out of it and let the chips fall. (but that wont do, they have oil!)

"what makes you believe we're any better?" as in? Just that we dont deserve to be wiped out? Is that your question?

[Charr Babies]

Yes, meaning, how have we behaved any better than Israel? Israel’s conflicts are at least confined to the Middle East, while we’ve exported destruction, suffering, and death to every corner of the world. 

I mean, we’ve slapped sanctions and embargoes on China, Russia, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, Syria, North Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Sudan, South Sudan, Ethiopia, the Congo, Belarus, Myanmar, Nicaragua, Somalia, Lebanon, Mali, and the Central African Republic - More than two billion people in total. That’s roughly one out of every three humans on the planet living under some form of U.S. economic punishment.

That’s astonishing, considering we’re basically an isolated continent sitting oceans away from everyone else.

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[BaII]

I also going to mention seems like we're paying the price of just... depleting our arsenal?

Korea just got it's THAAD's pulled out and how does this ever dissuade China from taking Taiwan by force? There are also Rare earth metal shortages as well so it's not just a financial cost we're also going to be running into material shortages as well.

There's also the fact that Ali Khamenei is a moderate in all of this. There are definitly much more hardliners in Iran and him issuing a religious fatwa against nuclear weapons should have been a clear tell.

There are ways of securing a peace treaty in all of this but it'll likely have to do with the expulsion of U.S military presence within the Middle East

[greenline]

If it continues to 4 weeks without approaching a useful resolution, the move looks like a blunder.

[Mjmd]

I mean keep moving the goal line for when its a blunder. If there isn't regime change and we just replaced an old guy in bad health with his son who normally would have been an unpopular option which may have normally caused issues is that a blunder?

@Charr I meant all of history not US history. In ALL of history there are a few examples of the populace rising up and everything working out. There are TONS of examples of attackers thinking that will happen and it not happening / happening but poorly.

[superdeath]

Yes, meaning, how have we behaved any better than Israel? Israel’s conflicts are at least confined to the Middle East, while we’ve exported destruction, suffering, and death to every corner of the world. 

I mean, we’ve slapped sanctions and embargoes on China, Russia, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, Syria, North Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Sudan, South Sudan, Ethiopia, the Congo, Belarus, Myanmar, Nicaragua, Somalia, Lebanon, Mali, and the Central African Republic - More than two billion people in total. That’s roughly one out of every three humans on the planet living under some form of U.S. economic punishment.

That’s astonishing, considering we’re basically an isolated continent sitting oceans away from everyone else.

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Well, the vast majority of those countries we are sanctioning/embargoing.. kinda deserve it for their various violations of basic human rights/general attitude. Its astonishing to you, but not to me, because we continue to be the better choice for "world police/leader" even with the last few president(s) blunders/ect. 

If it wasnt for hurting the pocketbook of most of congress, id really like for full embargo's on China/Russia until their conflicts/issues are resolved. China with their 400 various border issues plus Taiwan/Tibet. Russia with their horrible decision in Ukraine, amongst other issues. All this said, the USA isnt the golden child either but it does far better than either of its "2 competitors" combined.

[Charr Babies]

Well, the vast majority of those countries we are sanctioning/embargoing.. kinda deserve it for their various violations of basic human rights/general attitude. Its astonishing to you, but not to me, because we continue to be the better choice for "world police/leader" even with the last few president(s) blunders/ect.

Lol, "basic human rights" according to the US - that’s adorable. There’s a viral meme that sums it up perfectly: whatever the US accuses others of doing, it’s usually guilty of the same thing itself. 

While we are committing genocide.
Yes, we gave genocide 58 standing ovations in the House of Congress.
Right, right - other countries violate human rights, but when we do it, it’s "leadership" Very convenient system.

even with the last few president(s) blunders/ect.

What, you are not sure if it was just Trump!? Or that we have a long history of....
LoL @ atrocities downgraded to blunders. Nice try. 

the vast majority of those countries we are sanctioning/embargoing.. kinda deserve it

Only KINDA, but we will give them a spanking anyway?
AND, what about those who are not in the majority that didn’t deserve it!?

I’m fine with disagreement, but the "kinda/mostly" stuff makes it feel like you don’t really believe what you’re saying, that you haven't thought things thru.


Hmmm, Russia with their horrible decision in Ukraine deserves what? ..... while we are bombing Iran.... 

Classic deflection tactics below.
Dodging criticism by pointing at someone else. We can talk about your false assertions (and we have over and over again) in another thread if you like. This thread, we are talking about the USI and Iran. Just because you believe you are better than Jo Blow does not give you permission to commit genocide and targeting a girl school to kill ~200 teenage girls in the opening rounds

If it wasnt for hurting the pocketbook of most of congress, id really like for full embargo's on China/Russia until their conflicts/issues are resolved. China with their 400 various border issues plus Taiwan/Tibet. Russia with their horrible decision in Ukraine, amongst other issues. All this said, the USA isnt the golden child either but it does far better than either of its "2 competitors" combined.

So it’s not moral righteousness that dictates your foreign policies - it’s your pocketbook. So now, can we just drop all this bullshit you've just posted.

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[superdeath]

Well, the vast majority of those countries we are sanctioning/embargoing.. kinda deserve it for their various violations of basic human rights/general attitude. Its astonishing to you, but not to me, because we continue to be the better choice for "world police/leader" even with the last few president(s) blunders/ect.

Lol, "basic human rights" according to the US - that’s adorable. There’s a viral meme that sums it up perfectly: whatever the US accuses others of doing, it’s usually guilty of the same thing itself. 

While we are committing genocide.
Yes, we gave genocide 58 standing ovations in the House of Congress.
Right, right - other countries violate human rights, but when we do it, it’s "leadership" Very convenient system.

even with the last few president(s) blunders/ect.

What, you are not sure if it was just Trump!? Or that we have a long history of....
LoL @ atrocities downgraded to blunders. Nice try. 

the vast majority of those countries we are sanctioning/embargoing.. kinda deserve it

Only KINDA, but we will give them a spanking anyway?
AND, what about those who are not in the majority that didn’t deserve it!?

I’m fine with disagreement, but the "kinda/mostly" stuff makes it feel like you don’t really believe what you’re saying, that you haven't thought things thru.


Hmmm, Russia with their horrible decision in Ukraine deserves what? ..... while we are bombing Iran.... 

Classic deflection tactics below.
Dodging criticism by pointing at someone else. We can talk about your false assertions (and we have over and over again) in another thread if you like. This thread, we are talking about the USI and Iran. Just because you believe you are better than Jo Blow does not give you permission to commit genocide and targeting a girl school to kill ~200 teenage girls in the opening rounds

If it wasnt for hurting the pocketbook of most of congress, id really like for full embargo's on China/Russia until their conflicts/issues are resolved. China with their 400 various border issues plus Taiwan/Tibet. Russia with their horrible decision in Ukraine, amongst other issues. All this said, the USA isnt the golden child either but it does far better than either of its "2 competitors" combined.

So it’s not moral righteousness that dictates your foreign policies - it’s your pocketbook. So now, can we just drop all this bullshit you've just posted.

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my pocketbook hasnt been directly affected by anything the president/congress has done in recent memory. At least nothing noticeable. 

I dont believe i said bombing Iran was a great decision. But if our current dumbass in chief wants to do it, he might as well go full-send. 

i say "kinda, and mostly" ect, because im not full-tilt for any side of the isle. 

The others that arent part of the majority that didnt/dont deserve it? Huh, maybe that goes in the President's blunders ect. (also, "atrocities" are part of the ECT) 

I do oh-so-love how you constantly state that the USA is committing genocide, yet you dont really back that up. Im a history major, i am well aware of what has been done in the name of "democracy" ect. 


Also, the " Right, right - other countries violate human rights, but when we do it, it’s "leadership" Very convenient system." Yep. We do dumb shit as well, but not NEARLY to the same degree. Especially in comparison to Russia/China, or most of those that we embargo.

[Charr Babies]

I dont believe i said bombing Iran was a great decision. But if our current dumbass in chief wants to do it, he might as well go full-send.

You say Russia deserves full sanctions and an embargo for Ukraine. My question is whether you think we would deserve full sanctions, an embargo, and frozen assets for what we’ve done, and are still doing, in Iran. 

Even our little green friend who denied the genocide eventually flipped and admitted it - but only so he could justify it. Incredible commitment to the bit.

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[Charr Babies]

Ah, the deflection tactic, we are not as bad.

I mean, it’s not like the world has a limited capacity to punish bad actors — as if we can only punish China and Russia for being bad. Can’t we make room to punish the US too, even if we’re not as bad?

I mean, We already sanction over a third of the planet who aren’t as bad; I’m sure we could squeeze ourselves in

I mean, you say Fuck China. Fuck Russia. Can we Fuck ourselves