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[PB81] Clash of Island

I don't think I will post many updates here.

I'm reasonable sure I will find time to play, but time to post ?

Still, there was a question for players to provide rankings, so I will do it.
Civ/Leader still needs a complete assessment, but you can write a few words.

Signups and short rating - I can't say much besides a few general words for most.
1. Greenline:

3 PB games are known to me. The PB72 was okay. I think greenline suffered maybe the most from the map.
In the end, I wasn't that easy of a target and Greenline the only target for Bing. Greenline overextended and got bailed out by aetryn in the end.
PB74 was okay too ? Not the best expansion decisions and greenline got run over by a better player - only later than me, so greenline was able to survie on a island. I really like to think that I would fare better, if greenline was Gavagai target - still there is the question if that is player skill or player civ ?
PB75 is still running, so only spoilers:
Another solid game. I don't like greenlines thinking near the end (Ginger is runaway, I will help the runaway to attack a neighbour and will border the runaway after that.

In the end, I would say greenline is a solid player. The problem ? All players here are solid cIV players. So greenline is still one of the weaker players here.
There are a few old PBEM, which I didn't looked at, but I think, the 3 recent PB are enough.


2. TBS:

I know TBS has a very good reputation.
civac introduced TBS to us (civfourm.de) for PB59 that some here consider him to be the best cIV player of all time ?
I think this might be a bit exaggerated.
The last 3 games (from 2021) didn't seem particularly outstanding. No victory there ?
A second place I think and to stop TBS, is seems it needed at least 2 players.
The last (single) victory is from 2016 ?


3. Mjmd:

Mjmd feels like the best player here ?

On a quick skim with less successes than expected (and why do you always play without points ? The PBSPy archive don't helps in this case to get a quick info about success.), but still a lot of game participation in the ‘last’ time. Mjmd survived most games, so there is that at least.
Achievements are of course always relative to other players and it could be that with PB 59 some good players have disappeared ?

Successful was the PB70 (and the broken NAP) and as DeadLurker the PB72.
PB75 Spoiler:
And in PB75 good chances for a 2nd victory, after a really lucky early game. I don't know how Mjmd was able to secure a pole position ? Mjmd seemed to be the (second) weakest target for a long time.
Also worth mentioning is PB66, in which Mjmd held out against Plemo for a very long time. (And only towards the end there was real momentum for Plemo). I think, Plemo would win the duel on the long run, but Plemo was regarded as runaway and came out as contender.



4. SD:

SD is difficult to categorise.
It feels like SD's game plan is to build an army and smash into someone.
This is of course a great simplification, but in the end it fits, doesn't it?
It should also be mentioned that this is SD 35th PB participation (with story). Unless SD is 100% resistant to learning (which can't be ruled out, since the game plan feels the same), something has to stick.
PB 75 again:
This game is interesting for a SD rating.
SD was able to run over Rick - a totally green player - very fast. SD has the early lead and the good praetorians ? What's the next action ? SD loses (draws) a war against Gavagai, which lost (drew) a war against Mjmd earlier.
Another skirmish with Nauf in the north a little bit later and SD is isolated and out of running.


5. Naufragar:

Another one where I know not much.
Not as good as Mjmd or TBS, but still a good player ?
PB 75 spoiler:
Nauf seems to play a good game, but nothing outstanding. A longer war with GT and then a few skirmishes with SD ?
Nauf is still big enough to be relevant, but Nauf seems to be out of the running at the moment.

6. Giraflorens

Let me copy my PB79 assessment.
Giraflorens also has 4 PBs behind him, but that was 3 years ago and was semi-successful.
The first 3 - including in the ‘Greensgame’, which Plemo won by a wide margin - were probably not particularly successful according to the last page of the stories.
The first player eliminated in each case?
Positive trend, at least, first eliminated against horse archers, then against mace men, then against cataphracts.

Neither many nor successful games.

PB79 spoiler:
Giraflorens seems to come second last out of the landgrab phase. And the last player if Rick, who got better in comparison to the PB75, but is still clearly the weakest player.

7. Xist
Self-assessments are always difficult.
This is my 11th PB, so I have a bit experience - I think Mjmd or TBS could have fewer games ?
And I had a few semi successful games - CF PB91 had a good position at the end, same for CF PB 90. But the good games were all games with a partner, so I can't claim 100% success for myself. I'm afraid I've also made a smaller contribution.


8. Dreylin
Let me copy my earlier assessment from the PB79 again.
Dreylin is a very old veteran at RB in terms of activity.
13 PB/PBEM and participation in 6 EitB PBEM - before 2017. There are not many surviving documentations, so I can't say much about this games.
Recently, Dreylin was the only one to be successfully rushed in the RB PB 74 and this year he was eliminated as 3rd in the PB75.
PB 75 spoiler:
Dreylin got attacked from 2 sides. The momentary runaway Ginger and the weak greenline.
Still a good defense and Ginger lost his runaway status.

Not one of the weaker players here, but I don't really think, Dreylin is one of the better too.



To sum it up:
Mjmd, Nauf and TBS on one island.
I'm not sure about SD and Dreylin and I really want to put me in this category too.
But I think, I should be with Greenline and Gira on one island.


In the end, I expect to person to win, who gets at first to Astro and ends off invading the noob island.
To counteract this a bit, I want SD on the Pro island, because I don't think, SD wants to wait till Astro and as such, this could slow down all players on this island.

And maybe we could activate Colonial cost too ?
Reply

Thanks for the overview.

(September 14th, 2024, 15:32)xist10 Wrote: And maybe we could activate Colonial cost too ?

Colonial city maintenance was patched out of the mod because it made any island city prohibitively expensive if playing with vassals on, which made vassals off the default state for any game. I don't think there's much interest in putting it back in, even as a toggle option.
Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
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Okay, I thought we play normally without vassals and not, that CtH modded this completely out.
We don't need to create a new CtH fork for that.

And yes, the prohibitively expensive island cities was the idea behind the request.
You can settle small (1-3 cities) islands, but you need a good economy to invade the second continent.

In the end, you will place the Forbidden Palace on one continent and the Palace on the other and reduce the cost be a larger margin, but there is still a reason to conquer the own continent first.

There is the question of what your intended vision of this game is, but like I said, I expect the winning move for the "Pro" island to be rushing Astro and invading the "Noob" Island.
This assumes that the "Noob" research (significant) slower and as such, the invasion goes without (many) problems, but I think, the chance of that is not small ?

The question of colonial maintenance and the placement of SD on the Pro Island should both hinder this play somewhat.
Reply


Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Reply

Okay, a bit hunting heavy.

Thanks for the map.

Like I wrote in the first post, I don't plan to write much here. Maybe an overview every 50 turns ?
I have 3 Pb with much higher priority and the next lecture time starts, when the game will start.

Anyway, there is the question of how I'm going to approach things.

Option A) Try to get a research lead and then process the situation
Option B) Try to get a land lead (and after that research)

I think, Option B) is more fun.
There are 2 option for Land lead. Better expansion and/or (early) military.
I think early military is the better option ?

I'm thinking about AGG/ORG Rome. I think, Rome first, because I can change the leader, but the civ could be relative contested.
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I took Sumer instead.
AGG Vulture could be even better in an early than Praetorians (both untested by me) and Ziggurat as cheaper, earlier courthouse is something I really like coming from CF and our deity games.
This makes other AGG leader a bit more interesting.
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Can I take pottery ?
If not, I would like to get Hunting.

Like I said, I wanted an AGG leader.
ORG has a bit of anti synergy with the Ziggurat, because The Ziggurat is ORG lite.
In the end, I thought about Ragner (FIN) or Toku. I think Ragnar would be better, but I chose Toku.
Short term PRO should be better, if the game works Like I hope (it will not), I will be missing the extern trade partners because I will have conquered all on my island.
And I like the additional 2 promotions on my rifles.
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First tier only, so Hunting it is.

Tokugawa rifles are fearsome; we faces them in PB66 frown
Playing: PB74
Played: PB58 - PB59 - PB62 - PB66 - PB67
Dedlurked: PB56 (Amicalola) - PB72 (Greenline)
Maps: PB60 - PB61 - PB63 - PB68 - PB70 - PB73 - PB76

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Reply

Greenline: Wang Kong (PRO/FIN) of Persia (Immortal/Basaar)
I think another player on the Noob island.
PRO/FIN is a good combination. No expansion bonus, but I think possible the best eco leader here.
A good first pick. But Persia second ?
I don't think Immortals are much better in the MP than chariots and the basaar as an antisynergy with PRO (+25% palace and +25% basaar is not enough for 4c intern trade routes).

Superdeath: Catherine (IMP/CRE) of Byzantium (Cataphract/Hippodrom)
Vary dangerous combination.
I'm bit surprised SD got to pick Byzanz second last, but I really hope SD is on the other continent.
Catherine is okay ? SD will claim much land, but I'm a bit concerned if he can reach guilds.

Xist: Tokugawa (AGG/PRO) of Sumer (Vulture/Ziggurat)
My game plan should be clear. Fighting.
I have no real expansion bonus, but I have the best units. I have a weak eco during the middle game.

Giraflorens: Qin Shi Huang (PRO/IND) of India (Fast Worker/Mausoleum)
Qin first is a maybe. I don't think Qin is bad, but IND has the hidden malus, you could invest to much in wonders.
Gira screams first target for me at the moment, because India is not bad, I really like the UU, but in the same moment, india has nothing terrifying for the starting phase. PRO is not enough of deterrence, especially because I expect more PRO archers than chariots.

Mjmd: Julius Caesar (ORG/IMP) of Zulu (Impi/Ikhanda)
Mjmd is maybe a bit slower than SD with claiming land, but will have a better eco than SD with Ikhandas and cheap courthouses.
Zulu first is something I understand - the Ikhanda is one of the best UB.

Naufragar: Boudica (AGG/CHA) of Portugal (Carrack/Feitoria)
And here we have the first player who wants to break out of the 2 continents rule. Carracks can transport units much earlier than other ships.
CHA has a synergy with ships, but I don't really understand AGG (better units for the invasion) or why Nauf took Portugal first.

TBS: Pericles(CRE/PHI) of America (Navy SEAL/Carnegie Public Libary)
Okay, this is a very dangerous combination. PHI with America ? I'm a bit surprised TBS could pick America.
Pericles with CRE has the cheaper libraries. I think I would have taken another PHI leader, but...
And I knew from the PB79 that an Astro bulb is still dangerous.
And there is nobody on the other continent with an earlier power spike to stop this "cheap" - if SD is on the verterans continent.

Dreylin: Willem (CRE/FIN) of Rome (Praetorian/Forum)
If my predictions (hopes) come true, Dreylin will be my main opponent on the Noob island.
I think AGG vultures could be better than non AGG Praetorians, but still, no easy enemy.
Willem is a very solid leader.


I think my game plan (conquering my continent with vultures (and catapult)) is still possible, but there is the threat of early invasions from TBS and Nauf.
And I'm a bit surprised nobody picked the Netherlands for the east india, which don't need paper.
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