Favourite "Master of Orion"?

[WingsofMemory]

I don't know if this is a good use of a thread or not, or if it's been discussed already, but what is everyone here's favourite Master of Orion Game, and why?

For me it's Master of Orion 1.

The sliders being a representation of where you are spending taxes is an extremely elegant, fun, and even realistic way to do an economic system for an empire management game. The space battles are also a great blend of simple, fun, and fast. And probably one of the main reasons, even if it's shallow, is the games atmosphere. The comic-book-meets-realism art is awesome, and the Star Trek inspired look of things is too. The music is the best of the series in my opinion, and the setting is simple but nifty.

I like the other Master of Orion games too, and they all have great stuff going for them (even number 3, although I've never beat it since I'm too dumb to play it properly lol) but in their differences I find less engaging and enjoyable games. The space combat in MoO2 takes too long and the scale being smaller lends a different feel than MoO1, but it has a lot of cool features and choices that makes it awesome in it's own right. MoO3 feels like a proto-stellaris that was ahead of it's time, but also should have been it's own franchise instead of dragging MoO into what it was doing. And MoO:CtS is a bit more casual and requires less investment into it, and I really appreciate that they really did try to make fans of the franchise happy by trying for a MoO 1.5 like a lot of people wanted even if they didn't fully succeed. Also the Terran Khanate is a fun race to have added probably just because I like Star Trek too much lol, granted the original game was very Star Trek in tone, so I think they fit. Oh, and Starlords (the demo for MoO) was kinda neat if anyone here has played that.

So how about you gentlemen? What are yours? What things do you think that your less favoured ones do well? Anything that your favourite could've done better?

[haphazard1]

I voted for the classic MoO as the best. But I also really like MoO2; it is a very different game from the original, but is a lot of fun in its own way. I have not played MoO3 or the more recent remake/re-imagining, so I can not comment on them. RotP is a really fun take on MoO and I would recommend it to people who have trouble getting into classic MoO because of the interface or the need to run it in DosBox. I don't know anything about Starlords.

As for reasons I like classic MoO: the replayability because of the variable tech tree from game to game, the diplomatic system which allows not-quite-war-not-quite-peace, and the differences between the various races offering suprisingly large differences in play while still being (mostly) balanced.

[RefSteel]

MoO2 was actually the first one I played, and I still think of it with nostalgia, but the amount and style of micromanagement has kept me from playing a game in years (and from finishing one in decades!) Remnants is a really great update of MoO, and I'd still like to try another SG if others are interested, but I have to go with the original MoO as my favorite - partly because I've played it far more and I'm more used to its quirks, but largely because the AI always keeps the games interesting and mixes things up constantly. RotP features a handful of different AIs, but I find them too predictable in certain ways. The original MoO's AI needed massive advantages to compete with a skilled human player, but I find I'd rather play against a set of distinct, simplistic, and wildly-unpredictable AI rivals with hilariously asymmetrical advantages than a set of more-robust less-"cheating" AI rivals that too often seem too similar to one another for me. I feel like that isn't really fair to Remnants though; apart from our two SGs, I've not yet played a single game of it all the way to completion, I've not looked closely at the Fusion mod with its "Roleplay" AI etc, and more experience with it might make its differences from the base game more appealing to me and show me the AI can be more interesting than my limited exposure so far made me believe.

I never tried nor wanted to try MoO 3 after reading about it extensively, even before release, and I fear the movement system, ubiquitous space pirates, and something I can't put my finger on about the visual design turned me off from the official reboot as well. You didn't list Dominus Galactica, by the way, which is sort of a hybrid of MoO, MoO2, the reboot, and their own IP. It's another one I never played for the same reasons as the reboot, though I'll note the combat mechanics of those two are almost precisely opposite in design.

[WingsofMemory]

I voted for the classic MoO as the best. But I also really like MoO2; it is a very different game from the original, but is a lot of fun in its own way. I have not played MoO3 or the more recent remake/re-imagining, so I can not comment on them. RotP is a really fun take on MoO and I would recommend it to people who have trouble getting into classic MoO because of the interface or the need to run it in DosBox. I don't know anything about Starlords.

As for reasons I like classic MoO: the replayability because of the variable tech tree from game to game, the diplomatic system which allows not-quite-war-not-quite-peace, and the differences between the various races offering suprisingly large differences in play while still being (mostly) balanced.

The mostly-randomized-but-not-really tech tree is one the best things about MoO1, I can't believe I forgot to mention it! I remember having one game where for ship to ship combat, shield techs all spawned, and almost no ship weapons spawned on the tree. It was a really bizarre way to play when everyone could barely penetrate each others shields, I can't even remember what I had to do to get around it. I do remember once I could finally defeat the guardian it was time to put those death rays to very good use lol.

I would say skip MoO3. It was made by a different company and plays way differently. I'd say that if you are really into Stellaris and want to play it's great-granduncle then try MoO3, otherwise avoid it.

I've seen people complain about the Diplomacy in MoO1, but I find it very good.

Thanks for the answers!

[WingsofMemory]

MoO2 was actually the first one I played, and I still think of it with nostalgia, but the amount and style of micromanagement has kept me from playing a game in years (and from finishing one in decades!)  Remnants is a really great update of MoO, and I'd still like to try another SG if others are interested, but I have to go with the original MoO as my favorite - partly because I've played it far more and I'm more used to its quirks, but largely because the AI always keeps the games interesting and mixes things up constantly.  RotP features a handful of different AIs, but I find them too predictable in certain ways.  The original MoO's AI needed massive advantages to compete with a skilled human player, but I find I'd rather play against a set of distinct, simplistic, and wildly-unpredictable AI rivals with hilariously asymmetrical advantages than a set of more-robust less-"cheating" AI rivals that too often seem too similar to one another for me.  I feel like that isn't really fair to Remnants though; apart from our two SGs, I've not yet played a single game of it all the way to completion, I've not looked closely at the Fusion mod with its "Roleplay" AI etc, and more experience with it might make its differences from the base game more appealing to me and show me the AI can be more interesting than my limited exposure so far made me believe.

I never tried nor wanted to try MoO 3 after reading about it extensively, even before release, and I fear the movement system, ubiquitous space pirates, and something I can't put my finger on about the visual design turned me off from the official reboot as well.  You didn't list Dominus Galactica, by the way, which is sort of a hybrid of MoO, MoO2, the reboot, and their own IP.  It's another one I never played for the same reasons as the reboot, though I'll note the combat mechanics of those two are almost precisely opposite in design.

Yeah, MoO2s micromanaging gets brutal. It's for early game, but by mid game it's worn out it's welcome.

I've never played Remnants of the Precursors, I used to follow it's development religiously back when it was called "MoO for Java" or whatever. Then they got Cease and Desisted by wargaming when they bought the rights to MoO to make the remake. I still followed it for a while, but I ended up really not jiving with the artist that they got. The artist is super competant, just the style and feel they went with doesn't work for me. Also some of the tiny proposed gameplay changes didn't jive with me either. Those are the same reasons I've never tried the Master of Magic remake either lol.

What is an "SG"?

Are you talking about MoO3 or MoO:CtS (wargamings MoO remake, basically MoO4?)

Can't say I've heard of Dominus Galactica. How new is it? I'm pretty much out of the loop on 99% of things that came out in the past 10 years lol.

Well, thanks for the reply! It's fun to talk to fellow MoO fans. It's hard to find IRL people into strategy games nowadays, let alone old DOS ones lol.

[RefSteel]

I ended up really not jiving with the artist that they got.

Interesting - I quite like the Remnants art, and though I disagree with some of the small design choices too, I think it's very playable and cool. Apart from the AI design, for which my sample of cases is too small to be sure, my main suggestion for anyone playing RotP is to play on a small galaxy: The game is mostly MoO, and neither MoO nor any other 4X game I've yet seen scales well beyond a few dozen production centers. In Remnants, you can get a galaxy of literally millions of stars if your computer can handle it (and apparently many machines can; it's really well-coded in this respect, I understand!) but that's more for showing off the engine's impressive capabilities than for actual gameplay!

What is an "SG"?

Succession Game! A group of players all take turns as "Emperor," picking up where each other left off, like a line of imperial succession. So, player A starts the game and plays the first 20 turns, reports on what happened with their plans and discoveries, and passes on the save to player B, who picks it up and plays and reports on the next 15 turns. Player C takes the next 15 to reach turn 50, then player D takes 10 from there, and then player E (if any) or player A again takes the next 10, cycling through everybody with ten-turn sets apiece until we either win or lose the game together or start getting into complicated enough real life and/or in-game situations that someone decides to "hand off" the save early. With all the reports and discussion, it's a really fun way to play; I had a great time with our Remnants SGs last year and the many MoO ones in prior years.

Are you talking about MoO3 or MoO:CtS (wargamings MoO remake, basically MoO4?)

Oh, when I mentioned "the reboot," I was talking about the recent(ish) remake ("Conquer the Stars," yeah) - I didn't think it necessary to elaborate on why I gave up on MoO3 before it came out as much; the many problems with that game have been described at sufficient length among fans of the franchise.

Can't say I've heard of Dominus Galactica. How new is it? I'm pretty much out of the loop on 99% of things that came out in the past 10 years

Yup, it's pretty new! It shares a lot in common with the original MoO, but departs in much more significant ways than Remnants. (For instance: It uses Star Lanes by default, and adds a number of additional races. And space combat is on a hex grid, splits fleets if you have fewer than six in play, uses critical hits, just to name a few points....)

It's fun to talk to fellow MoO fans.

Always - agreed!

[WingsofMemory]

Succession Game!  A group of players all take turns as "Emperor," picking up where each other left off, like a line of imperial succession.  So, player A starts the game and plays the first 20 turns, reports on what happened with their plans and discoveries, and passes on the save to player B, who picks it up and plays and reports on the next 15 turns.  Player C takes the next 15 to reach turn 50, then player D takes 10 from there, and then player E (if any) or player A again takes the next 10, cycling through everybody with ten-turn sets apiece until we either win or lose the game together or start getting into complicated enough real life and/or in-game situations that someone decides to "hand off" the save early.  With all the reports and discussion, it's a really fun way to play; I had a great time with our Remnants SGs last year and the many MoO ones in prior years.

Oh wow, that sounds like a really fun idea! I've never heard of that, but it sounds awesome. If you want to wrangle up players for that, I'd be happy to be a part of it! Although, my time is a bit tight IRL (so much so that in the past 2 years I've only played about 10-12 hours of video/computer games of my own volition) but if there are enough players to pass the baton between then I could make it work. I'd need help learning how to import/export the save file though lol.

[haphazard1]

SGs can be a lot of fun. I would be interested in playing if there are enough people for a team.

I will have to try Dominus Galactica, it looks interesting. Lots of MoO inspiration, but doing some different things.

[RefSteel]

SGs can be a lot of fun. :nod: I would be interested in playing if there are enough people for a team.

Likewise here! (Though time is a limitation for me too....)

I will have to try Dominus Galactica, it looks interesting. Lots of MoO inspiration, but doing some different things.

My fault here since I got the name wrong - it's Dominus Galaxia - but you did try it a few years ago! Your report of the early game was really interesting and informative, too - never finished, but enough to give me a sense for the game (and several reasons it's not my cup of tea).

[haphazard1]

Hi RefSteel! Yes, I did try Dominus Galaxia at one point. But as you noted, I did not continue playing to really give the game a thorough attempt. I should do something about that.