Is that character a variant? (I just love getting asked that in channel.) - Charis

Create an account  

 
With Enough Patience, A Merc Can Solo The Game

With Enough Patience, A Merc Can Solo The Game

It has been mentioned here that a Frenzy merc has solo’d the game. That Act V bruiser is swinging a pair of Griefs, wearing Fortitude, and even sporting a Cham for the rare moment when Cannot Be Frozen comes in handy.  I don’t doubt it for a second, my Rogue merc manages it even faster with less exotic gear. 

The line “with enough patience, a merc can solo the game” shows up from time to time, usually from someone picturing a fairly equipped or twinked merc, and assuming that experience applies universally. But once we step into variant territory, the relationship between patience, power, and difficulty stops being that simple.

Variant difficulty isn’t defined by how long the merc takes to kill something. It’s defined by the stack of restrictions the player is juggling at the same time. Depending on the ruleset, that might include:
-Paper thin survivability - No Stat points, low life, minus 80 resists all, or outright one‑hit‑death fragility
-Skill restrictions - passive only, no skills, Oskill only, or whatever the variant calls for
-Hard caps on skills and Oskill levels - no synergies, no scaling, no class multipliers
-Item driven combat - fighting through Oskills, charges, and procs instead of class tools
-Merc centric progression - where your job is to stay alive and keep the merc alive. Actively participating.
-Budget merc gear - Reaper’s Toll or some low lvl Unique such as Woestave, Kelpie Snare, Treachery, and little else. Or Fire Engine Red's classic Rogue merc armed with nothing much than a Kuko 
-Constant tactical work - pulling, kiting, recasting, terrain abuse, and AI manipulation

None of this is exotic to RB. It’s simply the normal operating environment for variants.

Why “Patience” Doesn’t Explain Anything. The idea that “a merc can finish the game with enough patience” only makes sense when the merc is strong enough that the player barely matters. That’s fine for standard play, but it has nothing to do with variant difficulty.

To illustrate the point:
If I create a naked sorceress with no stat points but full access to her skills, she can clear the game dramatically faster than many of the variants listed above. Teleport, Static Field, and high level elemental spells trivialize pacing. And, even without a merc. She requires less patience than any of the variants above.

But would we call her a harder challenge simply because she’s faster? Of course not. And that's why I have never made such a nood.

Speed has never been the metric. Her run is easier because she has power, not because she is more skillful or has less patience.

The other variants are harder because they have restrictions, not because they are slow. Patience is a side effect of the rule set, not a measure of mastery.

It is about Execution Over Endurance. A merc taking longer to kill Baal doesn’t say anything about the player’s skill. What it does say is the player is:
- Staying alive under harsh restrictions
- Keeping the merc alive with limited tools
- Navigating fights with no margin for error
- Compensating for every weakness the rule set imposes

The slower kill is not a sign of weakness. It is a sign of higher difficulty.


How’s that for scratching the itch to return to some D2 gaming neenerneener I had to think this through, because I’m going to start by twinking up my most "useless" toon, Jeremiah the Leaping Warder, to address the whole "with enough patience, a merc can finish the game" idea by seeing if I can make it require a little less patience. 

Jeremiah is the nekkid Baba who use Leap (not LA) and Grim Ward together with a Holy Freeze merc using a Reaper's Toll, the guy who can disable an entire level of monsters to a frozen fleeing state. Grim Ward alone is already slow by ~70%
 
With a stash of useless high runes staring at me, begging to be wasted, I’m going to make a rather useless freeze-stick so he can replace the HF merc and exploit other options. That means I’ll be dressing up Jeremiah as well, though he’ll stay passive with the same skill set


The first test will be Jeremiah running Beast (Fanaticism) in one hand and Doom (Holy Freeze) in the other…




PS: If you’re curious which merc to use or how best to twink one up, I’d appreciate any suggestions  smoke

PS2: Oh yeah he might as well go for max BO (I think I can get to lvl 48 so far) just because I hate to lose a BO showdown, my BO scream is going to quiet all Barbs  rolf

.

.


KoP
Reply

Would holy freeze's pulse damage from you (as minuscule as it is) count as breaking the restriction that it's the merc defeating enemies? I know it's more or less a rounding error and a technicalty, especially with monster health regeneration in play, but still.

For high rune wasting, the one thing I remember from using mercs was that teleport was instrumental in getting them to keep firing and fighting, so at least teleport charges on the cheapest possible staff might be worth a look.

Merc choice: Anyone but the archer or iron wolf.

Rogues are alright mainly for not suiciding into act bosses (e.g. moated mephisto) while holding an insight stick, but their damage is lacking, and partially elemental which your barb doesn't support well (grim ward reduces physical resists). They are good for dealing with physical immunes though, for the same reason. With good equipment, an exploding or freezing arrow will eventually chew through anything not dual immune and with their regeneration stopped (e.g. insight's inbuilt poison)

Iron Wolves are single-damage-type, that makes it a nono against immunes. Plus they don't have masteries, and their lower level skill going above level 20 only partially compensates with giving synergies (linear vs quadratic).

That leaves us with 2handed barbs, frenzy barbs, and desert mercenaries.

2 handed barbs use bash (which is bugged), war cry (which is unnecessary with your crowd control and constant hit recovery lock), and stun (ditto).

Frenzy barbs have frenzy, iron skin, and taunt (which overwrites your grim ward, for a potential damage loss against physical enemies. On the other hand they attack faster (and thus can carry any elemental damage on weapons you can give them) very well.

That leaves us with the old reliable, Emilio and friends, with jab to carry elemental damage when needed (if you have e.g. Demon's arch), plus auras (Might help).

So the choice is between using two swords on a barb, or using a spear/polearm/javelin on the usual desert merc. Either can work, depending on what tools you have. Desert mercs can wield Doom for example (if you decide against wielding it), while barbs can use all kinds of interesting swords (headstriker, djinn slayer, etc.) you may have left collecting dust for who knows how long by now.
Reply

Yeah, I've had the same thought in playing those teams I was doing. It almost doesn't matter how low powered the player character is, compared to the mercs that can beat the game on their own with enough patience and support. A few of my characters were almost doing that, even in LoD without the Resurrected merc stuff and untwinked without any of the high rune auras.

For picking a merc type - you don't have to. Use all of them. Keep sets of gear for each and go hire a different type whenever you want. Keep a bow and switch to the rogue for the act bosses which you tank yourself. Fire Iron Wolf or fire arrow rogue if/when you're going to clear areas with physical immunes. For general use, probably a good old Defiance or Might townie.
Reply

Quote:Would holy freeze's pulse damage from you (as minuscule as it is) count as breaking the restriction that it's the merc defeating enemies? I know it's more or less a rounding error and a technicalty, especially with monster health regeneration in play, but still.

My interest isn’t to imitate what others — or even my own past toons — have done. This round, I just want to explore the pairing of toon and merc using what I can actually afford, starting with Jeremiah since he’s mostly a for‑fun project built around exploiting Leap and Grim Ward. I might expand this to test other pairings, but that’s unlikely, because, as one example, a Mosaic Sin running an Infinity merc is anything but niche


Quote:For high rune wasting, the one thing I remember from using mercs was that teleport was instrumental in getting them to keep firing and fighting, so at least teleport charges on the cheapest possible staff might be worth a look.

Yea, that would make things easier


Quote:Merc choice: Anyone but the archer or iron wolf.

Now that you mention it, I’ll have to take an Iron Wolf out for a run. As for Rogues, I’m betting HotBowBabe’s Rogue merc can outperform that Frenzy Act V hire with 2 Griefs and Fortitude


Quote:Frenzy barbs have frenzy, iron skin, and taunt (which overwrites your grim ward, for a potential damage loss against physical enemies.

Not a problem at all, since he doesn’t Taunt often enough for it to matter — it’s basically just window dressing. And even if he did Taunt more, it would only add another advantage to the AI exploit. Taunt might overwrite Flee at the moment it’s cast, but it gets overwritten by Grim Ward as well, so the monsters end up stuck in a forced repositioning loop.


Quote:That leaves us with the old reliable, Emilio and friends, with jab to carry elemental damage when needed (if you have e.g. Demon's arch), plus auras (Might help).

I think I’ll go ahead and enchant all the mercs with Demon Limb. Emilio and his friends are probably the most steadfast mercs, but they definitely won’t win any speed races in these experiments. Still, each type of merc has its place… maybe not so much the Iron Wolf.


Quote:Desert mercs can wield Doom for example (if you decide against wielding it), while barbs can use all kinds of interesting swords (headstriker, djinn slayer, etc.) you may have left collecting dust for who knows how long by now. 

I’m going to make Doom on an axe simply because it’ll be more versatile for other classes that want to use a shield




A Merc Can Solo The Game With Enough Patience

I think part of the misunderstanding comes from how broad the statement “With enough patience, a merc can solo the game” is. Taken literally, it lumps every character who uses a merc into the same bucket - budget, mid‑tier, top‑tier, everything. It flattens all nuance and effectively dismisses any achievement the moment a merc is involved. And that applies equally to Softcore and Hardcore.

Even the most top‑tier uber builds rely on mercs to erase P8 Baal waves faster than you can blink. Stronger builds can do the same with a bit more patience. And the mid‑tier or budget setups can still get there on lower player count, but they have to slog through it at a much slower pace. And the poor‑man builds? It takes them even longer and a lot more patience - the game becomes more demanding, requires more skill, and often ends up being more fun because of that extra challenge.

So when we say “a merc can solo the game with enough patience,” it’s technically true — but it also unintentionally illegitimizes every character who uses a merc, even the strongest ones. It turns a very layered reality into a single simplistic line.


The slower kill is not a sign of weakness. It is a sign of higher difficulty as below:

Quote:Variant difficulty isn’t defined by how long the merc takes to kill something. It’s defined by the stack of restrictions the player is juggling at the same time. Depending on the rule set, that might include:
- Often enter Hell to end game, giving a huge +20 Mlvl > Clvl advantage
- Paper thin survivability - No Stat points, low life, minus 80 resists all, or outright one‑hit‑death fragility
- Skill restrictions - passive only, no skills, Oskill only, or whatever the variant calls for
- Hard caps on skills and Oskill levels - no synergies, no scaling, no class multipliers
- Item driven combat - fighting through Oskills, charges, and procs instead of class tools
- Merc centric progression - where your job is to stay alive and keep the merc alive. Actively participating.
- Budget merc gear - Reaper’s Toll or some low lvl Unique such as Woestave, Kelpie Snare, Treachery, and little else. Or Fire Engine Red's classic Rogue merc armed with nothing much than a Kuko
- Constant tactical work - pulling, kiting, recasting, terrain abuse, and AI manipulation

With these crippling restriction, keeping the merc alive to do its job under such conditions is only a small part of the job. Keeping the toon alive with these restrictions is the real challenge.


.

.


KoP
Reply



Forum Jump: