[SPOILERS] Tatan, as the glorious Shaka of France!

[Tatan]

Welcome! To all noble lurkers, I say GOOD DAY. To all ignoble players I say



Shut up and get out!


With that out of the way, I'll try to post some concrete thoughts soon.

[Tatan]

Editor's Note: Written as I went along, so it will sound like a narrative, because, well, it is!

Now, for those not following the set-up thread, certain civs and leaders were banned in order to induce variety.

1. India
2. Inca
3. Byzantium
4. Mali
5. Ottomans
6. Rome
7. HRE
8. Maya

1. Willem (Fin/Cre),
2. Pacal (Exp/Fin)
3. Suryavarman (Cre/Exp)
4. Peter (Exp/Phi)
5. Pericles (Cre/Phi)
6. Mehmed (Org/Exp)
7. Gandhi (Spi/Phi)
8. Darius (Fin/Org)
9. Elizabeth (Fin/Phi)
10. Ragnar (Agg/Fin)
11. Zara (Cre/Org)
12. Mansa (Fin/Spi)
13. Kublai (Agg/Cre)
14. Hatshesphut (Cre/Spi)
15. Joao (Exp/Imp)
16. Hannibal (Chm/Fin)

So obviously, the dream traits [Fin, Cre, Exp] would be in short stock. All the combinations of those three traits by themselves were already out, so the top leaders would be those who combined a dream trait with a solid trait [Phi, Spi, Agg, and Org [prince+toroidal=~monarch level maintenance, which means that it would be okay]]. Of course, most of these combos are also banned, so I would probably end up having to resort to a combo of only solid traits. I consider Phi and Spi to be better than Agg and Org, so I rate the following leaders as best [in a vacuum, at least]:
-Isabella [Spi/Exp]
-Shaka [Agg/Exp]
-Alexander [Agg/Phi]
-Frederick [Phi/Org]
-Asoka [Spi/Org]
-Montezuma [Agg/Spi]
-Hammurabi [Agg/Org]

In the loose order that I would select them. Of course, synergy with a given civ is also a factor.

The following civs made my short-list:
-Egypt [War Chariot/Obelisk]
-Korea [Hwacha/Seowan]
-France [Musketeer/Salon]
-Ethiopia [Oromo Warrior/Stele]

Yes, this is a very short list. I considered England, but there was only a slim chance I would be around long enough for Stock Exchanges to matter, let alone Redcoats. Walkthrough of what each potential pick I was considering would look like:

1. Shaka [backup: Alex] of France [backup: Ethioipia]
I though the strategy of mass-drafting Combat 1 units would be interesting to try out, and Redcoats and Janisseries were both out, so France seemed the best remaining choice. Leader-wise, for the second trait Fin and Cre were both already out, so I went with the next best ones. Monty is also serving as a backup-of-a-backup.

2. Isabella of Egypt
Pretty flexible option. I can go for exp-backed REX defended by War Chariots, or simply do a War Chariot rush, or go for some early religion. Problem is, this option doesn't actually have a lot of synergy in and of itself.

3. Alex/Frederick [can't decide] of Korea
Simple strat, go for double-speed Seowans. Solid, but booooring. Alex could spice things up a bit by going for a medieval-age rush and then recovering in tech via Seowans.


Unfortunately, selection is not done alone. I was fifth in the pick [out of seven], so by the time I was up Huayna [Fin/Ind], Vicky [Fin/Imp], Izzy [Spi/Exp], and Egypt had been selected. Well, that rules out the Egypt strategy entirely. People seemed to be valuing Uber-traits much more than I was, so in order to snap up a good leader I went for the gut and chose Shaka [Agg/Exp]. Only Adlain and Amelia will get to select Civs before me, so I am almost certain to get SOMEone I want. Sure enough, the A-people both went otherwise and France is mine!

[Tatan]

Know thy enemies!

Luddite: Isabella [Spi/Exp] of the Aztecs
From his typically insightful posts in various other threads and his play in the Civ 5 RB3 Deity Succession, I think Luddite will be a very dangerous opponent this game. Alexrdavies I know almost nothing about, other than that he got totally eaten in PB1 by... someone [Munro, I think? That game was so hard to follow].

Jags are okay-ish, only really useful if there is no iron about or for doing tricky Woodsman-type things. The Sacrificial Alter is pretty awesome, though; with quick speed Luddite can whip EVERY THREE TURNS, and the Alters cost 30 hammers less to boot. Izzy is pretty awesome, too, and is the only other Expansive leader in the game besides me; fortunately, she doesn't have any direct synergy with the Aztecs. I expect Luddite to have well-developed cities, and possibly a religion.


Amelia: Julius [Imp/Org] of Sumeria
I don't know too much about her, but she seems competent enough based on her PBEM 3 and FFHPBEM 2 threads.

The picks, however, are kinda weird. Sumeria is a little lack-luster to me, Vultures being mediocre without Combat I from Aggressive, and Ziggurats coming way before you need them. With the pick of Julius I'm guessing that Amelia is going for some Rapid EXpansion, with Vultures acting as a deterrent and Zigs to fall back on as maintenance spirals out. Problem is, to someone like myself with Aggressive Axes, Vultures will just crumble over [for those not in the know, due to the funny way Civ4 calculates odds, in a straight-up Vulture vs. Ax fight the Ax will have odds, and C1 will only increase the gap]. And, seriously, if you wanted cheap Courthouses, the Aztecs were still available at the time! Even while REXing, Code of Laws shouldn't be THAT much harder to get to than Priesthood. Though she should be REXing, I wouldn't be surprised if Amelia went for Oracle, though, considering Priesthood would already be a priority tech.


Gold Ergo Sum: Huayna [Fin/Ind] of the Zulu
From playing with him in SGs 2 and 3, he seems pretty good; he's certainly a competent player, at the very least. However, he also seems to have an aversion to warfare, and is new to multiplayer, both of which will likely make him a paper tiger [hopefully!]. Twinkletoes will probably help him avoid some of the n00b mistakes SP-people tend to make in multiplayer, though.

So, I just spent a whole paragraph elaborating on GES's peaceful tendencies. So imagine my surprise when I saw that he took the Zulu! However, things still might not be as they seem... Judging from his stated first choice of Korea, and his leader Huayna "Builderfest" Capac, I think that GES planned to use a relatively early UU [Impi/Hwacha], while he techs to victory. I think his picks were very solid, in this respect. Impis slaughter the only other rushing UU in this game [War Chariots], and Ikhandis are pretty solid due to being able to boost both the economy and the military. Huayna also turned into a great pick; there is only one other Fin civ, so GES has basically a free shot at being the tech leader. And, of course, since there is no other Ind leader in this game, GES will be able to leverage that tech advantage quite easily into wonders. So despite having no synergy between leader and civ, GES has managed to make what IMO is probably the best pick of the seven of us, closely followed by Luddite.


Mardoc: Victoria [Fin/Imp] of Korea
A newcomer to these forums, I've seen him primarily in the various FFH threads. His skill is by his own admission low, but that could mean a lot of different things, and he will have SevenSpirits [another RB3 player!] to help him.

The picks are solid, but unimpressive, to me at least. Victoria is fairly good, I expect that Mardoc will leverage her traits to expand quickly, but the Korea pick only kinda links up with this. Hwachas are always nice, but not stellar, and for Seowans you really need to be Philosophical for them to come into play quick enough to matter. SevenSpirits boast-posted in the set-up thread that this was a great combo; I'm not sure if he was joking, or if I'm missing something, or what, because honestly I'm not too amazed. Korea is another mysticism-starter, and with Fin Mardoc is basically guaranteed an early religion if he wants one.


Plako: Sulieman [Phi/Imp] of Egypt
I know that Plako played in PB2, and along with Broker33 pulled off perhaps the best comeback I have ever seen, so I know he is skilled. Also, if I know that if I should rush him, I NEED to come back and FINISH THE JOB!

This is another pick that is solid, but where I just can't see a direct synergy. War Chariots are awesome, and are great protection from rushes [or can rush others themselves!], but Obelisks are meh; useful mainly for a Monk-economy, which as seen in previous games is not exactly a super choice. Suleiman's traits are okay, but, I dunno, it just seems like Plako could've done better. Oh, and this makes yet ANOTHER player starting with Mysticism.


Adlain: Hammurabi [Agg/Org] of England
I know Adlain the most well of any of my opponents, due to us working together in PBEM 10. He is a bit of an erratic player, with a good sense of decision-making and diplomacy, but prone to forgetting about things. Still someone to watch out for.

I guess we had similar thoughts for this game, Adlain's strategy seems to pretty clearly be to tech up to Rifling and draft-stomp everyone with Aggressive Redcoats. Indeed, I think that if Adlain gets there he will be extremely dangerous, but the problem is getting there itself; Adlain will have no Unique things to help him until Banking, and no direct teching trait to help him get there faster. Personally, I don't see why he didn't pick Alex [Agg/Phi], who could help sprint up the tech tree much more than Organized Hammurabi ever could.


And finally...
Myself!
Because if PBEM10 is any indication, I will be my own worst enemy.

[Tatan]

Leader: Shaka
-Aggressive
=>Free Combat I promotion for Melee and Gunpowder units.
=>Double speed Barracks and Drydocks.
-Expansive
=>+25% production of Workers
=>+2 health per city
=>Double speed Granaries and Harbors

Civilization: France
-Unique Unit: Musketeer [+1 movement]
-Unique Building: Observatory [+1 free Artist]
-Starting Techs: Agriculture and The Wheel
-Color: Violet Purple


Reflections:
I'm pretty happy with these. Leader/Civ don't have much direct synergy, but the indirect synergy is great; C1 on drafted Musketeers, two worker-centric starting techs with Exp-fueled workers, the ability whenever I go to war to make the pun "And now we will become the color violent purple!".

It will remain to be seen what I can do with my picks. Not dying to a War Chariot rush is a good start!

[Tatan]

No plan survives contact with Turn 0, but I here's the general outline for what I have in mind.

Phase One
REXpand!
-Use Exp to create swarm of workers, chop out double-speed granaries, and go settler slaving. Or something along those lines.
-Use Agg to keep others at bay, while running a farmer's gambit. ["SURE, it doesn't LOOK like I have any troops. But attack, and POOF 20 Shock axes come out and sic you."]

Phase Two
Consolidate!
-Once maintenance costs force me down to 50-60% research, halt growth and use worker swarm to uber-improve the land.
-Beeline towards Guilds/Gunpowder

Phase Three
Build-up!
-Crank those Knights
-Beeline towards Nationalism, draft those Musketeers

Phase Four
Kill, Cull, and Conquer!
-Annihilate nearest/evilest player
-???

Phase Five
Profit!

[SIZE="1"][I couldn't help myself!][/SIZE]


Things I Do Not Plan To Be Doing

-Early Wonders
[INDENT]My general policy is SCREW EARLY WONDERS. Seriously, in almost every situation in a multiplayer game your time is better spent on expansion and infrastructure.

[SIZE="2"]Warning: PBEM10 Spoilers[/SIZE]

Plus, half the time you don't even GET the wonder, anyway. In PBEM10 I broke my own rule to make a grab at the Great Lighthouse in my second cities, chopping at least 4 or five forests only to see Meatbalz grab it 2 turns before me. And that alone stunted my growth quite a bit.

Besides, Gold Ergo Sum took Huayna [Fin/Ind], too, so if he wants an early wonder that I want, I WILL almost certainly lose the race. So, listen to me, kids.


SCREW EARLY WONDERS[/INDENT]


-Early Religions
[INDENT]Dashing for an early religion can work out sometimes, but in this game it is definitely not in my best interests. There are a number of reasons for this.
-Since I am Expansive, I want to be building loads of workers; religious techs generally don't help with workers, so I would effectively be wasting one of my traits by going for an early religion.
-There 3 other civs that start with Mysticism, and only 2 early religions [Judaism doesn't count]. Do the math.
-Since I am not planning to build any early wonders [see previous point], the religious tree holds significantly less value for me.
-I can always pick up one of the later religions for a much lesser cost, or even adopt a neighbor's religion.[/INDENT]


-Early Rushes
[INDENT]If I thought doing a rush would be interesting, I would have chosen the Zulu. 'Nuff said.[/INDENT]

[SleepingMoogle]

Quickly checking in. You certainly made some interesting choices.

Without knowing anything about the map, I'd probably recommend a Gunpowder beeline of sorts. You'll probably want to go there through Guilds rather than Education and OR is very powerful in the early game, so you can't ignore the bottom of the tree for too long.

If you don't want to go after an early religion yourself, keep your fingers crossed for a lucky spread, or buddy up with a founder and arrange for a missionary or two.

[Tatan]

Quickly checking in.

Howdy!

You certainly made some interesting choices.

And here I was actually thinking my choices were at least moderately conventional! Dang, PBEM10's selection process really screwed up my sense of normality.

Without knowing anything about the map, I'd probably recommend a Gunpowder beeline of sorts. You'll probably want to go there through Guilds rather than Education and OR is very powerful in the early game, so you can't ignore the bottom of the tree for too long.

The reason I wanted to go through Guilds is mainly because attacking someone with a big stack of knights and musketeers can be absolutely deadly; the musketeers serve as stack defenders to kill all those pesky pikes, while keeping the inherent mobility of a stack o' knights.

If you don't want to go after an early religion yourself, keep your fingers crossed for a lucky spread, or buddy up with a founder and arrange for a missionary or two.

I find that founders will usually go out of their way to spread the faith, so I'm pretty confident in my ability to somehow acquire a religion. Actually, I was considering going for Judaism once the core worker techs were completed, since I'll want to be heading up there sooner rather than later anyway, as you pointed out. However, as I kind of said ambiguously earlier, I think worker techs should be the immediate priority [unless we get stranded on an island with only corn or something].

[Tatan]

So, now that GES choose the Zulu and the previous post criticizing everyone elses' picks has been updated, I figure it's time to rank the players, and how I think I will need to play around them.


6. Adlain [Hammurabi [Agg/Org] of England]
A fairly good player, and a non-cookie-cutter pick, but... frankly I think it is folly. Even with Financial or at least Philosophical, the probability of him still being around as the game limps to rifling is pretty low. IF he does get there, though, and actually has a large enough empire to draft from, I will be scared.


5. Amelia [Julius [Imp/Org] of Sumeria]
If her super-REX strategy is pulled off successfully, I will be very surprised. Let's just say that I for one will not allow my territory to be muscled in on, and I doubt others will, either. Actually, the only people who can't counter Vultures via an early UU or via being Agg are Luddite, who is prolly competent enough to kill her anyway, or Mardoc, who still gets Hwachas soon enough.


4. Mardoc [Vicky [Fin/Imp] of Korea]
Solid picks, but the player is a bit suspect. Financial will ensure that he keeps up in the tech race, though.


3. Plako [Suleiman [Phi/Imp] of Egypt]
Maybe not the best pick, but Plako is still a good player, and these are still good picks. I should be wary of him as a close neighbor in case of War Chariot rush, though I suspect with Imp he'll be leaning more towards natural expansion.


2. Gold Ergo Sum [Huayna [Fin/Ind] of the Zulu]
Potent player, potent techer, and potent builder. I could easily see him being a top leader in tech throughout the game, but hopefully his inexperience with military operations will allow someone to bring him toppling down.


1. Luddite [Izzy [Spi/Exp] of the Aztecs]
Alright, the more I think about him the more scared I get. He has an already powerful pick for expansion, and is a GOOD player. I can only hope he chooses to do something foolish like go religion-whoring [sorry SleepingMoogle ] or something else that stunts his growth.


Where do I fit in this list, you ask? Honestly, I'm only moderately better off than Amelia.

[SleepingMoogle]

Why, on top of course! You have solid advisors to fall back on.

Anyway, most of the picks seem to be aimed at building, not warfare (even the Zulu with their maintenance reducing Barracks) and that is something which you could use to your advantage. If one of your neighbours is a softy, you should be able to annex him without too much trouble.

But yeah, that's probably not going to happen in the Ancient age. Get those Worker techs first, and try to quickly expand before going too heavy into military production.

[mackoti]

Egipt doesn't start with misticism but farming and whell(best combo in the game).And obelisk are realy strong if yuo know to use them, and if you have a city with a serious food.
regards
Mackoti