[SPOILERS] Lewwyn frees slaves in Lincoln's Ethiopia

[Lewwyn]

If you're a player of any PBEM 18 sections or a dedlurker you know the drill.

















Under Construction. 2:

[Lewwyn]

So here are the players, the leaders and civs...

I am Lincoln (PHI/CHA) of Ethiopia (Oromo, Stele)
Techs: Mining, Hunting


SleepingMoogle has Augustus (IND/IMP) of China (Cho-ku-Noku, Pavillion)
Techs: Agriculture, Mining


Mackoti has Kublai Khan (CRE/AGG) of France (Musketeers, Salon)
Tech: Agriculture, Wheel


DMOC/Nakor have Asoka (SPI/ORG) of Aztec (Jaguar, Sacrificial Alter)
Tech: Mysticism, Hunting


I've bolded the units, traits, starting techs that I think are the most enticing, and most useful. In following posts I'll outline why for each...

[Lewwyn]

I'll start with myself:

I am Lincoln (PHI/CHA) of Ethiopia (Oromo, Stele)
Techs: Mining, Hunting

First off, Lincoln. I suck with PHI. I don't usually run a GP/specialist economy. In fact, I've only ever run a full GP economy once, and I sucked at it. I would rather have ANY other trait besides protective. I avoid leaders with PHI when I play SP. It's a weakness in my civ skills, simply because I haven't tried it before. I think I'm gonna have to do some studying...

Now I bolded CHA because A) I personally like the trait, and B) in a CTON game I feel that the XP discount will be beneficial, plus I'm kind of a warring guy. Over all I think in a game like this it will be useful, especially the extra happy if luxury resources get pillaged.

The Oromo is okay, but of the 3 musket units I perfer the janissaries and musketeers... AT least the two drills allow for a mounted promo with first upgrade...

Stele could be of GREAT use here in a CTON game. Since I'm CHA I will want monuments anyway and the 25% culture bonus will be a biin in border battles. Culture is hugely important in this game IMO.

Starting techs, Mining is good. Hunting is terrible. The only good thing it helps to quicker archery... Scout start in a CTON game? If anyone comes across my borders early, they're coming in... Forces me to get a warrior out. I don't want to pull a mortius.

[Lewwyn]

SleepingMoogle has Augustus (IND/IMP) of China (Cho-ku-Noku, Pavillion)
Techs: Agriculture, Mining

Of the picks I think this is 2nd best.

SleepingMoogle got one of the two better picks here. Augustus is the only IND leader of the group giving an edge to wonders, plus cheap forges are always great. IMP on a CTON map where you are going to be using settlers as weapons? Yeah I like it. This game (I'm betting) will have a lot of city razing so it works both defensively and offensively.

China is one of the better Civ picks here. First the Cho-ku-Noku, I like it. It's one of my favorite UUs. I know there is a great divide here. Some people love it a lot of others think it's weak or useless as a crossbow upgrade. Dunno, its hit or miss, with me its a hit. Pavillion is kind of useless, but its advantage is about the same as my stele. So if I'm arguing that the stele could be useful (Let's put on a good face here) then I have to say there is some use for the pavillion too.

The best part about China is the starting techs. Mining Agriculture? The best in the game! No scout start and the best worker techs. Compared to Ethiopia and Aztec, this is the jackpot...

AS for sleepingmoogle, I've read only a little but I believe him to be very competent solid player. With this pick he should do well. I forsee him being heavy competition.

[Lewwyn]

Mackoti has Kublai Khan (CRE/AGG) of France (Musketeers, Salon)
Tech: Agriculture, Wheel

If I had my choice, I would have picked this one. IMO best pick.

First, Kublai is CRE/AGG. As the only creative civ its going to be really powerful. The culture will crush the competition, early border pops, cultural defenses, cheap libs. Everything about a CTON game makes CRE more powerful. If you're borders are stronger then the effectiveness of NAP is lessened. Overall CRE is the strongest Trait in this particular game.

AGG is usually less desirable, but honestly pairing CRE and AGG makes rushing easy. Also I have said I believe there will be more war in this game. Agg will pull its weight. If I were trying to balance this I might have gone CRE protective instead? I think its strong.

Musketeers, 2 move muskets. They can keep up with knights. Very nice UU. As I've said I prefer this to the Oromo.

Salon is a later UB, not that great, though that free artist is kind of nifty. Average.

Techs? Agr, wheel are good startign techs. They are average to good. They are about a step below China's, but they are way ahead of Ethiopia's and Aztec's... No hunting... Warrior start.

Mackoti? I have a hard time figuring him out sometimes. I've seen him do smart things and stupid things. I don't really fear Mackoti's civ skills, btu I do fear his aggression in conjunction with this pick. Its perfect for his play style... This pick will allow him to play his best game to maximize his strengths and hide his weaknesses. He got lucky. I'll have to crush him mid to late game. Stupid creative.

[Lewwyn]

DMOC/Nakor have Asoka (SPI/ORG) of Aztec (Jaguar, Sacrificial Alter)
Tech: Mysticism, Hunting

IMO worst of the group. Though the synergy of SPI and civic switching for slavery and cheap alters is quite good. Dunno, I say worst but its close with mine...

Asoka and SPI/ORG is not that powerful on paper but it synergizes well as I've said above. No anarchy, cheap courthouse little maintenance, decrease happy penalty for whip, switching in and out of slavery. It's a bit of a juggle but if you maximize the benefits it can be strong.

Aztec, Jaguar is underrated by many as it is only 5 strength, but if you're dedicated to the rush, don't have Iron it can be extremely powerful, so I've been told. I admit I have used the jaguar rush, and it has worked. My issue is that you have to be aiming for it. Having a lot of forests, jungles on the map helps too. But overall we're talking about a unit that requires IW and by the time you get there most everyone will have axes. In addition if you beeline IW for the rush, you neglect your worker techs and you put yourself behind. Resourcelessness can be powerful, but I believe the trade-off weakens the allure.

The UB is good in this instance. It's cheaper, has synergy with SPI. Useful.

The Techs though are the worst in the game. They got shafted with this. Unless their start is all deer and furs, you need to reserch agri, AH, Mining, oh and after minign BW for chopping. These techs put you in a hole and force you to research a lot of basics. The good news is they probably won't need those worker techs right away because they'll be busy building a warrior since they start with a scout! And not only these factors but these are also the cheapest techs meaning they lose out in beakers. Really terrible when China has the best starting techs...

DMOC and Nakor have their work cut out for them. I'm not as familiar with DMOC but I'm quite familiar with Nakor. Fortunately one of Nakor's best skills, diplomacy, has been negated. He's still a good builder however. With this pick I see them having to catch a break or two. I think the team is strong but if they come under fire early it'll be a long game for them. They need to hope they are ignored in the early game.

[SevenSpirits]

First off, Lincoln. I suck with PHI. I don't usually run a GP/specialist economy. In fact, I've only ever run a full GP economy once, and I sucked at it. I would rather have ANY other trait besides protective. I avoid leaders with PHI when I play SP. It's a weakness in my civ skills, simply because I haven't tried it before. I think I'm gonna have to do some studying...

Ah cool, the random number generator challenges you and wishes you to better yourself!

[Lewwyn]

So those are my quick thoughts. You may have noticed I neglected to put the rating for my pick, well here's how it breaks down.

#1 - Kublai Khan/France

#2 - Augustus/China

Tied #3 - Asoka/Aztec

Tied #3 - Lincoln/Ethiopia

I have mine either 3rd or 4th. This is because given my choice I would have had a hard time choosing between the two. Gun to my head though... I choose Asoka/Aztecs... Why? I simply feel PHI is weaker than what other people think and simply put fairly useless for my play style. Given the choice between the two, I would have gone Aztec jaguar rush.

Overall, I understand people were trying for balance and while I agree there are some aspects of balance in that each pick has some weakness, the issue is that some have better strengths than others. My first gripe is that two of the civs have a scout start. Scouting is A) less important in CTON, B) forcing a non-optimal build strat. C) In CTON power is the only voice. Now with two scout starts half the civs will be over powered.

Second, I understand the attempt to not use the best traits: FIN, EXP, CRE. Some put PHI up with those 3 but I thoroughly disagree. PHI is a 2nd or 3rd tier trait IMO. So when you give one Civ CRE AND you give them a very nice UU AND their start techs are 2nd best with a warrior start, you're putting one pick above the rest.

Then just below that you get another warrior start the best starting techs AND the only IND civ AND IMP which given the fighting I forsee will be huge for GGs and aggressive settling.

Finally you have the dregs...

Disclaimer:
For all my complaining, I appreciate what was chosen and I appreciate the attempt in balance. I simply feel that 1 and 2 are balanced with each other and 3 and 4 are balanced with each other, but of the two groups the first set is superior in not just starting techs, warrior starts, but ALSO in traits. I know people will disagree with me on PHI. That's fine. I also know some will say its balanced. I also haven't seen the starts! They may have been a factor. I am willing to accept that. From here on out, I probably won't address balance again (though I reserve the right to say I told you so when Mackoti squeezes and kills off DMOC/Nakor early).

Everything is a matter of perspective. This my thread and my opinion, plus hopefully its interesting for the lurkers to read.



So given all this, who do I think will win the game? Me, of course.

[Lewwyn]

Ah cool, the random number generator challenges you and wishes you to better yourself!

Yes, I was sort of thinking along those lines myself.

And if my disclaimer didn't make it clear, I'm not particularly upset about what came out, just providing my opinion.

[Lewwyn]

And here's my start:



I moved the scout north before snapping the SS, so you can see a bit more.

My options are:
Settle in place.
SE, E to Plains hill freshwater
NE to forest plains hill freshwater

Getting a plains hill would be ideal, but the cost of moving to either of these hills is a coastal capital. Each hill is on a freshwater lake as far as I can tell. Thus the NE Hill makes the crab crap because I won't be able to get a WB there until at least my second city and my second city will most likely work it because it'll have a lighthouse. Plus NE loses that forest for early production.

SE, E is better in terms of not losing the forest, but it seems pretty barren. I can't work the Deer (2h/2f) tile there the first 2 turns, nor the pig tile at all. I'd basically just be hoping that there was more food SE. It looks like too much of a gamble to me particularly if that lake is big and I have more water tiles to work early without fishing. Also if the lake is only 1 tile across any tiles across the lake will be in the capital's radius and if I want to improve them I need to spend precious worker turns getting around the lake.

Settling in place gives me the most resources, fastest start up, a coastal start for lighthouse and two lake tiles I can work with a lighthouse! In the long term settling in place is much more productive. As coastal starts go this is ideal as I will only have 2 coast tiles in the BFC. Really I see it as a win-win to settle in place both in the short term and the long term.

So I do:



I'm thinking of naming cities after resources with a twist, thus Crabby Capital is born. Maybe I'll try to do resource + personification (like emotion).

You can see I've ended turn here. I've started BW straight up and despite all my bellyaching about scout start, I'm going with a worker. I have a plains/forest/hill 3h tile NE and if I work it I can get a warrior built in 3 turns. Thus if anyone appears outside my culture I start a warrior. It will finish before they reach me. The diagonal is blocked in 3 directions, the only direction I could get screwed at is SE. When my borders pop we'll see if that's still true at which point I can reassess.

Now the worker finishes in 8 turns! Thank you awesome deer. When it finishes I can start the camp. Then I can start chopping because BW will be done. AT this point I will have to think about the warrior. I can go Worker - warrior, or I can go Worker - worker - warrior. Worker worker is especially good here (as long as no one shows up) because I can build the first worker in 8 turns, start the camp, move to chop and finish as the second worker builds. I can put the chop into a settler, switch to warrior and grow while building that. Set the two workers to more chopping (maybe one builds a grasshillmine) and switch to settler as those chops are coming in.

We'll see how these plans turn out in the face of opponents, but I'm confident I can get at least one worker out before a warrior. SleepingMoogle hasn't even settled yet!