Alright lets do some planning!
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[SPOILERS] Emperor K, Cornflakes, what could go wrong?
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So I am thinking
-Rome -Germany -Japan -Arabia -China -Gorgo -Russia Those seem to be the power houses in vanilla. I think I would like to shoot for Rome but that is going to be highly contested. Japan is a solid choice, and discounted districts is always welcome. Arabia is good at science and faith. China being the builder civ. Russia has cheap religion to almost guarantee the first. Gorgo could also be used for first religion, but probably better to get the first GG. Then there is Germany with the extra districts, could be very good as well. What do you think? Any team you really want to try? Also naming scheme, how about different Cereals?
I came to about the same conclusion that you did as far as the list of power civs available. Here are some more detailed initial thoughts (not a ranking yet):
-Rome ... Very strong early game culture, leads to strong start and snowball potential. Weaknesses include (1) a target on the back due to early game lead, and (2) nothing to boost us down the home stretch other than the fact that entering the mid-game our snowball is a bit larger. Rome to me appears to drop off in strength as the game progresses. Mid-game conquest-leading-to-concession is probably the best victory condition to shoot for. The legion, however, is too early to take out a player, and as such I don't think it would be a good idea for early offensive warfare. By the time the mid-game rolls around, other players will have their UU entering the field. Rome really shined in the duel vs. TheArchduke, but in a larger field I'm inclined to see this as Fools Gold ... delivering ultimate disappointment in a long game. -Germany ... slow starter with little to boost the early game, long term powerhouse. The combat bonus vs. city states can somewhat mitigate the lack of other early game bonuses. A quick conquest of a city state or two would definitely be the goal. The extra district ability is a stealth discount on nearly every district once we enter the mid-game, if we plan things carefully, due to the district discount mechanic ... I've found the limiting factor on getting the discount is often running out of district slots in cities. Being able to build the extra districts should enable us to get the 40% discount on nearly every district that we build. The extra military slot means that the more economically-oriented governments are more viable which is a boost to the mid-game, and a nerf to the religious line of civics/governments. Game plan: capture 1-2 city states ASAP, turtle up throughout the late opening / early mid-game, bash some heads late Renaissance / early Industrial -Japan ... jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none. Not the strongest to a religion, but good chance at actually getting one. Early game somewhat slow, starts to hit stride in mid-game once district adjacency starts to build, and the adjacency-boosting policy cards are unlocked. The combat bonus on coastal tiles is mostly irrelevant on Pangea. I'm inclined to cross them off the list. The UU is less worthless now that anti-cavalry now qualifies for Agoge/etc. production boost. Hmmm ... this actually leads to an interesting opportunity. For Japan, Military Tactics is a single tech which unlocks combined-arms combo of anti-cav/melee. A beeline to Military Tactics (after Bronze Working, of course) includes the economic techs of Writing & Currency, and is a much shorter path than Machinery AND has all easily achievable eurekas. The issue remains though that Samurai can't be upgraded into and would thus require carefully set-up overflow and chopping to get out in an acceptable time frame. I'd still put this towards the bottom of my ranking -Arabia ... Guaranteed religion, wouldn't get the best beliefs if not gunning for one (which would be long-term suicide) but with only 4 religions in play some powerfully beliefs will still be available. Russia and China are all but guaranteed to be in the game, and thus we'd only need on other person to go for a religion in order for the free prophet to pop. Since religion auto-spreads to all cities with a HS completed, even a late-founded religion can spread quickly. A nice religious ability though is VERY CHEAP worship building, and since the really good beliefs will be taken when founding a later religion the worship building is actually a decent first-choice. The faith generated from the worship building pays for itself in 12 turns, and some decent alternatives for culture/production/special bonuses are available. Mamluks come at the right time, but are not all that inspiring. At least they can be upgraded-into! Arabia is a slower starting civ, and the most important early yield to boost is culture. Culture unlocks the religious buildings and heads towards the Theocracy government. A nice (and under-appreciated) Arabian "ability" is that the 2nd level campus building is unlocked at Theology rather than Education! This means that early science can be lower-priority, and a couple of expensive mid-game techs can be ignored much longer. If Jesuit Education could be secured (unlikely) this is very powerful indeed. -China ... Very strong early game if there is a suitable tile for Pyramids available with range of 1st/2nd city! Otherwise still a strong early game. Stonehenge a lock for an early religion #1 or #2. Various other ancient wonders easily grabbed on the cheap. Also suffers similar to Rome from early game target-on-the-back-syndrome and I-want-to-steal-your-wonders-syndrome. The additional builder charges are a late-opening / mid-game buff saving many hammers and build queues for other items. UU is almost irrelevant with only 1 range. Sure it might be decent on defense, but who wants to defend? And it can't be upgraded into. China looks like an exercise in efficiency to make the best use of the extra builder charges and squeeze the most out of early wonders to build a snowball that can out-roll later-blooming civs. Beware of renaissance/industrial invasion!! ... I'm inclined to pass -Gorgo ... Strong early game due to culture farming barbs and extra wildcard slot (either extra economy card, or GProphet/GGeneral card). Hoplite is now boosted by Agoge! Should get out of the starting gate close to Rome, but I like the longer-term prospects much better. An extra wildcard slot in the governments unlocked at PP along with the cards that start getting unlocked gives great flexibility and can adapt better to in-game needs. The Acropolis does eat a hill, but apparently provides 2  from city center adjacency and 1 from all other district adjacency, which is far superior to the district it replaces (the extra envoy can open up some interesting options, although in the grand scheme it will only add maybe 3-4 total ... how many Acropolis does one really need?). Hoplite is buffed from boosting with Agoge, too early for aiding in conquest but mildly useful for discouraging Horseman attacks in the Classical era. I think the wildcard + culture-farming make this is a solid all-around choice.-Russia ... Guaranteed religion, maybe not the 1st if China is in the game and rushes Stonehenge, but almost guaranteed to at least get the 2nd religion. Early religion means powerful beliefs can be secured, however early also means that the beliefs won't have much immediate impact. Jesuit Education doesn't have any impact until Campuses are built and culture accumulates. Then it is a long time until Theaters are unlocked. Choral Music requires building Shrines which is a drag on early expansion. Extra starting tiles is awesome and provides much greater flexibility in locating cities and acquiring resources. It also can boost the early game through quicker access to better tiles in the 2nd ring. The strength of the Cossack is also a weakness through eeek-cripple-Russia-before-Industrial syndrome. The trade route ability is mostly useless. Extra faith and production in tundra can provide marginal situational benefit. If the capital has a tundra resource in 2nd ring that gets acquired upon founding (which happens in randomly generated maps that take starting bias into account) it can make early pantheon easy without running God King. Overall the easy access to religion + Cossack make this a solid choice. However since you are currently playing Russia in PBEM 7 I assume you'd prefer passing on them here  no complaint from me if we pass on this one.
February 28th, 2018, 11:13
(This post was last modified: February 28th, 2018, 11:13 by Cornflakes.)
Reading back over my list, I think my current ranking would go:
1. Arabia - I think gunning for Religious victory from T1 is a viable stragety. A late-founded religion is not at any dis-advantage in a religious victory attempt because the beliefs which are geared towards religious victory are not in high demand. If picking Arabia I would focus the entire game play around winning religious victory, find the tech and civics which would be required, and cut everything else out (obviously military is still required to back up a religious victory attempt, because everyone will declare war on us at some point). If Religious victory interests you then I can post some further thoughts. 2. Germany - playing for a long game, understanding that we won't be out in front early but playing to explode into the mid-game. If you're not inclined to go all-out religious victory then I like Germany as an alternative. 3. Gorgo - early game starts better than Germany, but I like Hansa + extra district ability better. Definitely a solid choice though if you prefer #4 and #5 are essentially back-up options. I expect Rome + China + Russia to be ranked higher by our opponents, so I expect we would be able to get one of the above 4. China - Solid choice, but somewhat un-inspiring to me 5. Japan/Rome ... I would be incredibly surprised if it came down to our last choice, but since you are currently playing Russia I'm happy to put either of Japan or Rome here.
So now it comes to pick order
Germany - One of my favorite teams that I have not played in a while. So I vote for them as first pick. Gorgo - Another team I have not played in a long time. Like you stated just a solid pick all around. So second seems good. Russia - I really, really like the extra tiles. Saves money on tile buys, and allows for better city planning. Arabia - I am not sure I have actually finished a game with Arabia. They also seem like a solid choice. The Mameluks are still better than knights 1v1, so unless another civ has a knight or pike UU (i don't think any do) it is still right for pushing. May be a good team to try out crusade on. The first three choices all have discounted special districts which is always nice. Arabia as a fourth seems like it would be fun. That leaves us with our fifth choice. I am thinking Rome. I do not think we will get it but if we do I think we can try to pull ahead enough to stay relevant. What do you think?
Germany > Gorgo > Russia > Arabia > Rome sounds good to me
Now that you mention Crusade though, that is actually an interesting thought for Arabia ... hmmm ... Does crusade work on Warrior Monks? Warrior monks are cheap for a medieval unit at 150 faith purchase, and they can be bought at 2/turn per city-with-temple. And with 3 moves they can cover ground quickly. If we get unlucky on civ picks and hit 4th choice it would at least be something to look into and test with Arabia. We could put production into Heavy chariots, upgrade them to Mamluks with our gold at the same time we purchase Warrior Monks with faith. That would make for a nice Medeival era power spike  On the other hand that would definitely require getting in a decisive kill and probably continuing on to a 2nd decisive kill. The passive benefits of other beliefs might provide more value over the long-term than either (or both combined).
February 28th, 2018, 12:29
(This post was last modified: February 28th, 2018, 12:31 by Emperor K.)
OK looking over your post you put up just before mine. I did not refresh and I like the look of the following
Germany > Arabia > Gorgo > Russia > Rome. I really think we will get one of the first two. I think if we can land DotF with any of them we grab it. If you have read any of my PBEM threads I don't really like to have a defined strat until I know my surroundings. We could very well have Aztecs and Rome next door and that could change our opening considerable. So while I think we both have a good idea of what we would like to do with each of the picks, which CS we find first (if any) as well as terrain and again our neighbors will have an impact on our entire games decisions. If that modified list looks good to I will submit it. If you followed my PBEM6 thread at all I definitely suffered from trying to do to much. So having a focus is something I would like to have from the start. I do like the detail of starts you have proposed so we should have a definite plan to work towards, using the strengths of the civ we end up getting. EDIT: Hopefully this is not confusing, to sum it up - I think we should have a focus that is easily adaptable to our starting situation.
Picks are in! ... we were the only ones to not get first pick
 ... pick summary in player order:
Rowain and Krills 2nd-5th picks are odd. Maybe the thought was "if I can't get something strong on the 1st pick, then I'll at least play something new on the 2nd". Aztecs 2nd from Ichabod I think are a decent backup. |