RtR 4.1.1.6 Discussion and Download Thread

[Krill]

Here are the links to RtR_4.1.1.6, which works for SP and for PB games hosted on the Zulan server. A version for generic server can be provided but will not be hosted at present.

Full Change log here:

Change log 4.1.1.6

Traits:

Financial: +1 commerce on all non-river tiles that have 2+ commerce. +100% production of Bank. +35% production of Library, Market.

Expansive: +2 health per city. +35% production of Worker, Work Boat. +100% production of Market, Aqueduct, Grocer, Harbor.

Creative: +2 culture per city. +100% production of Theatre. +35% production of Library, Observatory.

Charismatic: +2 happiness. +1 happiness from Broadcast Tower. -25% XP needed for promotions. +100% production of Colosseum, +35% production of Library.

Protective: Free Drill 1, Drill 3 promotion for archery and gunpowder units. +100 production of Granary, Walls.

Imperialistic: +50% production of Settlers. +100% Great General points. +100% production of Custom Houses. -10% city maintenance [Numerical bonus not shown in interface. Bonus is multiplicative with other maintenance modifiers. Final displayed city maintenance value is correct and includes this bonus.]

Aggressive: Free C1 promo for melee and gunpowder units. -25% city maintenance [Numerical Bonus not shown in interface. Bonus is multiplicative with other maintenance modifiers. Final displayed city maintenance value is correct and includes this bonus.] +100% production of Barracks, Stable, Drydock.

Philosophical: +150% Great Person production, +100% production of University.

Industrious: +50% wonder production. Does not apply to Pyramids. +100% production of Forge. +35% production of Bank, University. -15% civic maintenance.

Organized, Spiritual: No change from BtS

Civs:

Civ: start tech 1/start tech 2. UB: building replacement: name. Effects changed from standard building (in RtR). UU: unit replacement. Name. Effects changed from standard unit (in RtR).

America: Agriculture/Fishing. UB: Barracks replacement: Armoury. +1XP to Gunpowder, +1XP to Mounted, +1XP to Armour, +2XP to Melee. UU: Musket replacement. Minuteman. Starts with Guerrilla 1 and Woodsman 1.

Arabia: Mysticism/Agriculture. UB: Library replacement: Madrassa. 2 Priest slots, 4 culture, cost 70. UU: Knight replacement: Camel Archer. starts with March. Does not require Horse.

Aztecs: Hunting/Mysticism. UB: Courthouse replacement: Sacrificial Alter. 50% anger duration after sacrificing population, +2 priest slots, +1 happy requires Monotheism, cost 90. UU: Sword replacement. Jaguar Warrior. Starts with Woodsman 2.

Babylon: Agriculture/The Wheel. UB:  Granary replacement: Garden. Requires Agriculture, cost 45, +1 health, no bonus production from trait. UU: Archer replacement. Bowman. +50% against melee,  no free strike, starts with Drill 1 and 2.

Byzantium: Fishing/Mysticism. UB: Barracks replacement. Hippodrome. +1 happy from iron, horse. UU: Trebuchet replacement. Counterweight Trebuchet. Strength 7. +40% city attack. Starts with Accuracy.

Carthage: Fishing/Mining. UB: Harbour replacement: Cothon. +1 trade route. UU: Horse Archer replacement. Numidian Cavalry. +35% against melee, -35% against spearmen.

Celts: Hunting/Mysticism. UB: Wall replacement: Dun. Free Guerrilla 2 promotion to units built in this city, no trait production modifier. UU: Sword replacement. Gallic Warrior. Starts with Guerilla 2.

China: Agriculture/Mining. UB: Theatre replacement: Pavilion. Available at Aesthetics. UU: Crossbow replacement. Chokonu. Causes Collateral Damage (max 60%), +2 free strikes. Requires Machinery (Does not require Construction)

Dutch: Fishing/Agriculture. UB: Customs House replacement: Dike. +1 commerce from river tiles, +1 trade route. Cost 120. UU: Galleon replacement. East Indiaman. Strength 6.

Egypt: The Wheel/Agriculture. UB: Monument replacement: Obelisk. +2 Priest slots. UU: Chariot replacement. War Chariot. Strength 5. -25% against archers. Flank attack against Catapults (3 units, max 100%).

England: Fishing/Mining. UB: Bank replacement: Stock Exchange. +15% science. UU: Rifle replacement. Redcoat. +25% against gunpowder units, starts with Amphibious.

Ethiopia: Hunting/Mining. UB: Monument replacement. 1 Merchant slot; gives sentry to units built in this city. UU: Musket replacement. Oromo warrior. Starts with Drill 2 and Drill 4.

France: Agriculture/The Wheel. UB: Observatory replacement: Salon. +1 free specialist. UU: Musket replacement. Musketeer. +1 movement point.

Germany: Hunting/Mining. UB: Forge replacement: Werkstatt. -25% city maintenance. UU: Grenadier replacement. Strosstrupp. Strength 14.

Greece: Hunting/Fishing. UB: Colosseum replacement: Odeon. +1XP to all land units in addition to base Colosseum XP. UU: Axe replacement. Phalanx. +100% defence against chariots.

Holy Roman Empire: Hunting/Mysticism. UB: Courthouse replacement: Rathaus. -75% city maintenance. UU: Longbow replacement. Landskneckt. +50% against Mounted units.

Inca: Agriculture/Mysticism. UB: Granary replacement: Terrace, +1 culture, cost 45 hammers, No trait production modifier. UU: Warrior replacement: Quechua. +100% against archery units.

India: Mysticism/Mining. UB: Granary replacement: Harrapan Granary, +1 happy, +1 health, cost 45 hammers, no bonus production from trait. UU: Pike replacement. Urukku Pikeman. Strength 8.

Japan: Fishing/The Wheel. UB: Harbour replacement. Nanban Harbour. +2XP for land units. UU: Maceman replacement. Samurai. Requires only Machinery (Does not require Civil Service) Starts with Drill 2.

Khmer: Mining/Hunting. UB: Aqueduct replacement: Baray. +1 food, +1 culture, +1 Artist slot. Cost 80. UU: War Elephant replacement. Ballistaphant (I don't know the actual name). Targets mounted first outside of cities. Can construct baray.

Korea: Agriculture/Mining. UB: University replacement. Seowan: +40% research, cost 150. UU: Catapult replacement. Hwacha. +50% against Melee units. Can kill.

Mali: The Wheel/Mining. UB: Forge replacement: Mint. +10% gold, +10% beakers. UU: Archer replacement. Skirmisher. Strength 4, -40% against archers.

Maya: Mysticism/Mining. UB: Colosseum replacement: Ball Court. +4 Happiness. UU: Spear replacement. Holkan. Strength 5.

Mongolia: Hunting/The Wheel. UB: Stables replacement: Ger. +1 culture, +4XP to mounted units, requires Archery, +100% production with horse, no trait production modifier. UU: Horse Archer replacement. Keshik. +1 free strike. Ignores terrain movement costs.

Native America: Fishing/Agriculture. UB: Monument replacement: Totem Pole. +3XP to Archery units, +1XP to Gunpowder units. Obsoletes at Assembly Line. UU: scout replacement. Tracker. Starts with Woodsman 3, can create Totem Pole. Upgrades to Explorer and musketman

Ottomans: The Wheel/Agriculture. UB:  Aqueduct replacement: Hammam. +2 happy, cost 80. UU: Musket replacement. Janissary. +25% against mounted, archery, melee units.

Persia: Hunting/Agriculture. UB: Market replacement: Satrap Court. -25% city maintenance. UU: Chariot replacement. Immortal. +15% withdraw. 1 Free strike. Starts with March.

Portugal: Fishing/Mining. UB: Customs house replacement: Feitoria. Water tiles +1 commerce, cost 120. UU: Caravel replacement. Carrack. 4 movement, 2 transport capacity.

Rome: Fishing/Mining. UB: Market replacement: Forum. +35% GPP. UU: Sword replacement. Preatorian. Strength 7, cost 40 hammers.

Russia: Hunting/Mining. UB: University replacement: Research Institute. Cost 120 hammers. Free Scientist. UU: Cavalry replacement. Cossack. +50% against Mounted units.

Spain: Mysticism/Fishing. UB: Castle Replacement. Citadel. -20% city maintenance. +2 culture. No espionage bonus. +2XP to siege units. Does not obsolete. Does not require Walls. UU: Cuirassier replacement. Conquestador. +50% against melee units. Can build Citadel.

Sumeria: The Wheel/Agriculture. UB: Courthouse replacement: Ziggarut. Available at Writing. Cost 90. UU: axe replacement. Vulture. Strength 6. 25% bonus against melee. 5% bonus against axemen.

Vikings: Hunting/Fishing. UB: Lighthouse replacement: Trading Post. Builds water units +25% faster. UU: Maceman replacement: Berserker. Starts with Amphibious.

Zulu: Agriculture/Hunting. UB: Barracks replacement: Ikhanda: -20% city maintenance. +100% production with iron. No production modifier from trait. UU: Spear replacement: Impi: -40% against archers, 2 moves

Leaders:

Kublai Khan: Leader traits are now Charismatic, Creative, changed from Aggressive, Creative.

Civics: Government civics:

Police State: Available at Military Science. Medium cost. +25% production of Military Units. -50% War Weariness.

Legal Civics:

Vassalage: Provides free support for military units (only affects  Pacifism unit cost). Requires Feudalism. Medium upkeep.

Bureaucracy: Effect unchanged. High Cost.

Nationhood: Effect unchanged. No upkeep.

Emancipation: +100% Improvement Upgrade Rate Modifier. +1 food, -1 commerce from Town. iAnarchyLength = 0 (does not cause anarchy to revolt to this civic). Requires Constitution. Low upkeep.

Labor Civics:

Slavery: 30h for the 1st pop, 20h for the 2nd pop and subsequent pops. So, 30/50/70/90. [On Quick speed, that's 20/33/46/60.]

Serfdom: +75% Worker Speed, +1h for Watermills and Windmills. Unlimited Scientist, Artist and Merchant slots. Requires Feudalism. Medium upkeep. Labor civic.

Caste System: +1h for workshops. Unlimited Scientist, Artist and Merchant slots. Requires Code of Laws. Medium upkeep. Labor civic.

Environmentalism: +4 health, +2 health from public transport. +2 gold per specialist, +1 hammer from lumber mill. +3 hammers, +2 commerce from forest preserves. Unlimited Scientist, Artist and Merchant slots. Requires Chemistry. High upkeep.

Economy Civics:

Mercantilism: +1 free specialist, Medium Cost, requires Banking.

Free Market: No longer provides -25% Corporate Costs. Now provides +25% Trade Route Yield.

State Property: Effect unchanged. Medium cost.

Free Speech: +1 commerce from villages, +3 commerce from towns, +100% Culture, Low cost, requires Economics.

Buildings:

Barracks: +1 culture, +3XP to land units. Cost 60 hammers.

Colosseum: +1 happy, +1 happy per 20% culture slider, +1XP to melee, archery, mounted and siege units. Requires Construction. Cost 80 hammers, Bonus XP applies to all Colosseum UB.

Jails: now -50% War Weariness.

Castles (and replacement UB): no longer decrease bombardment rate of catapults or trebuchets. Obsolete at Corporation (Except defensive bonus). Requires Walls. No trait or resource production bonus. Cost 80 hammers.

Temple: now requires Meditation (plus religion in city, no longer requires Priesthood)

Lighthouse: +1XP to naval units. +1 food from water domain tiles. Require Sailing. Cost 60 hammers.

Harbour: +2XP to naval units. +1 health from crab, clam, fish, +50% trade route yield. Requires Compass. Cost 80 hammers.

Customshouse: +3XP to naval units, +100% intercontinental trade route yield. Requires Economics. Cost 120 hammers.

Drydock: +7XP to naval units. +50% production of naval units. -1 health. Requires Steel. Cost 120 hammers.

Wonders, Projects:

Wonder Resource Modifiers: All wonders that had +100% production with a specific resource now only have +50% production with that resource.

Moai: +4XP to naval units.

Rushmore: Now -50% WW, (from -25%).

Red Cross: 200h.

West Point: 550h, +5XP. Now requires a lvl 5 unit (17XP/13XP for Charismatic).

Great Lighthouse: Now +1 trade route instead of +2 trade routes, enabled at Masonry, but needs lighthouse and Sailing (no functional change in the tech requirements but makes F6 look less cluttered).

SoZ: no WW effect. Now +3XP, 200 hammers, no building prerequisites. No longer gets +100% production from Ivory. Can be built on Medieval starts and earlier.

Taj Mahal: Triggers Golden Age, +2 Great Artist points/turn, requires Nationalism (No production bonus from marble)

Mausoleum of Maussollos: +50% Golden Age length. Cost 450 hammers. Requires Calendar. Obsoletes at Nationalism (No production bonus from marble)

The Internet: Now a wonder. 2k cost, +15% beakers in every city, +2 scientist gpp, double production speed with copper. No longer a project.

Cristo Redentur: +100% SPI production, -50% Anarchy instead of -100%.

SDI: Removed from the game

Religious Shrines: Buddhist, Hindu and Jewish Shrines can only be built in Ancient start games. Confucian shrine can only be built in Classical and Ancient start games. Taoist, Muslim and Christian shrines can only be built in Medieval, Classical, and Ancient start games.

Base unit changes:

Scouts: Require no tech. Every player starts with a scout instead of a warrior.

Swordsman (and all replacements): +50% city attack

Archer (and all replacements): +30% defense against Swordsmen.

War Elephants: Strength 7, +50% vs. Mounted units. Requires Iron, Iron Working, Horseback Riding, Construction.

Trebuchet: Now requires Machinery, instead of Engineering.

Crossbowman: Strength 6, 1 free strike, +50% against melee units, +25% defense against macemen. Archery unit, requires iron, Archery, Machinery, and Construction. iCollateralDamageLimit: 40%; iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 3 (causes maximum 40hp damage through collateral, collateral damage hits maximum 3 units)

Maceman: Melee unit, strength 8, +50% against melee, +25% against cities, cost 70 hammers, requires Civil Service, Machinery, [copper or iron].

Airship: Cannot see submarines

SAM Infantry: 75% interception chance (up form 40%)

Marine: Requires Assembly Line, Fascism, Rifling.

Paratrooper: Requires Assembly Line, Fascism, Flight.

Mobile Artillery: Can now load guided Missiles and Tac Nukes (as Submarines and Missile Cruisers do). No longer require oil.

Gunships: decreased to 3 moves.

ICBM: No longer unlimited range, but long enough so that they will out distance your army and navy easily, and they can be rebased. Loses the nuke tag. Does not need Manhattern project to be built.

• iCost: 450h
  
• iAirCombatLimit: 75
  
• iAirCombat: 160
  
• iCollateralDamageLimit: 75%
  
• iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 12
  
• iAirRange: 36
  

Tactical Nukes: Now S80 1shot units that can bombard units, cause collateral damage to 5 units, cannot be intercepted. Loses the nuke tag. Does not need Manhattern project to be built. Full list of changes:

• iCost: 200h
  
• iAirCombatLimit: 75
  
• iAirCombat: 80
  
• iCollateralDamageLimit: 75%
  
• iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 5
  
• iAirRange: 4
  

Guided Missiles: Can bombard units, tiles and cultural defence, cause collateral damage to 2 units, cannot be intercepted. Full list of changes (underline means original stat, for comparison):

• iCost: 60h
  
• iBombRate: 16
  
• iAirCombatLimit: 75
  
• iAirCombat: 40
  
• iCollateralDamage: 100
  
• iCollateralDamageLimit: 50%
  
• iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 1
  
• iAirRange: 4
  

Flanking: Flanking strength (used to calculate damage from flanking strikes) or all units reduced by 50%.

Naval units, promotion and mechanic changes:

Promotions and mechanics:

Ocean: Now costs 3 movement points to enter.

Circumnavigation: +1 movement point on naval units, individual achievement completed by unfogging a single tile on each row and/or column of the map on which the map wraps.

Coastal Blockade now has a range of 1 square around the blockader, instead of 3 squares.

Drill 1, Drill 2, Drill 3 Drill 4 Flanking 1, Flanking 2, Sentry: No longer available to Naval units.

Sentry: Requires Combat 3 OR Flanking 2 OR Naval Flanking 2 OR Navigation 2.

Navigation 1: Requires no prior promotion. +1 movement. +1 free strike chance.

Navigation 2: Requires Navigation 1. +1 movement. +1 free strike.

New promotion: Naval Flanking 1: Requires no prior promotion. +10% withdrawal chance. -1 terrain movement cost.

New promotion: Naval Flanking 2: Requires Naval Flanking 1. +30% withdrawal chance. +20% Collateral Damage Reduction.

New promotion: Naval Drill 3: Requires Navigation 2 OR Naval Flanking 2. +2 free strike chances. -20% collateral damage.

New promotion: Naval Drill 4: Requires Naval Drill 3. +2 free strikes. -20% collateral damage.

New promotion: Naval Sentry: +1 vision range. Requires Naval Flanking 2 or Navigation 2.

Naval unit changes:

Work boat: Base movement 2. Ignores terrain movement cost.

Galley: Base movement 1. Starts with Navigation 1.

Trireme: Base movement 1. Starts with Navigation 1.

Caravel: Base movement 2. Starts with Navigation 1. Strength 4, -30% against galleys and triremes, 1 capacity (can transport any units). Cost 60 hammers, requires Optics. Remove ability to enter cultural borders.

Carrack: Base movement 3. Starts with Navigation 1. Strength 4, -30% against galleys and triremes, 2 capacity. Remove ability to enter cultural borders. Cost 60 hammers, requires Optics.

Galleon: Base movement 3. Starts with Navigation 1.

East Indiaman: Base movement 3. Starts with Navigation 1. Lower to 3 capacity, remove ability to enter culture without OB.

Privateer: Base movement 3. Starts with Navigation 1, Sentry. +65% attack against Ships of the Line. Requires Optics and Paper, Upgrades to Transport (not Destroyer). (Removed ability [to attack without war declaration] and [hidden nationality].)

Frigate: Base movement 3. Starts with Navigation 1. Upgrades to Transport (not Destroyer).

Ship of the Line: Base movement 3. iCollateraldamage = 75, iCollateraldamagelimit = 70 (ie 30% hp max damage from collateral), iCollateralDamageLimit = 5. Cost 120 hammers.

Ironclad: Base movement 1. Starts with Navigation 1. Cannot enter Ocean (except within own borders). 1 free strike, strength 12, no defensive bonus, requires iron, coal, Steel and Steam Power, costs 120 hammers.

Transport: Base movement 3. Starts with Navigation 1, Navigation 2. Ignores terrain movement cost. Requires  Artillery (not Combustion) (requires Oil OR Uranium)

Destroyer: Base movement 6. Starts with Naval Flanking 1. Requires Artillery (not Combustion) (requires Oil OR Uranium)

Battleship: Base movement 4.

Carrier: Base movement 4.

Submarine: Base movement 4. Ignores terrain movement costs.

Attack Submarine: Base movement 5. Ignores terrain movement costs.

Missile cruiser: Base movement 4.

Stealth Destroyer: Base movement 6. Starts with Naval Flanking 1.

Barbarians:

Barbarians: Barbarian Animals: Wolf: unchanged.
Lion: Strength 1, 1 move. +100% against Melee.
Panther: Strength 1, 2 move, starts with woodsman 2 promotion.
Bear: Strength 1, 1 move, +200% against Melee.
Scout: +200% against barbarian animals. Require no tech. Every player starts with a scout instead of a warrior.
All difficulty levels adjusted: Human barbarian units are created from turn 40, barb cities can be created beginning from turn 50

Technology:

Adjusted tech cost is now calculated by ((log(cost of tech) / log (40) - 1) * (1.2X + 0.3), where X=iResearchPercent in CIV4WorldInfo.XML, and then modified by difficulty level. For further information, please see This spreadsheet for a saveable version of tech cost calculator (Thanks to Sevenspirits for the initial version of this spreadsheet and this mechanic)

Known tech bonus no longer scales with total player number. Scales depending on the tech era of the most advanced player in the game:

Ancient: No bonus
Classical: +2% per met player with tech, max +60% (no further bonus after 30 players)
Medieval: +4% per met player with tech, max +60% (no further bonus after 15 players)
Renaissance: +6% per met player with tech, max +60% (no further bonus after 10 players)
Industrial: +8% per met player with tech, max +80% (no further bonus after 10 players)
Modern: +8% per met player with tech, max +80% (no further bonus after 10 players)
Future: +8% per met player with tech, max +80% (no further bonus after 10 players)

Techs: Fishing, Agriculture, The Wheel, Hunting, Mysticism and Mining: base cost changed to 45.

Hunting: Enables pastures. No longer enables camps.

Animal Husbandry: Enables camps. No longer enables pastures.

Archery: Base tech cost decreased from 60 to 40.

Astronomy: Mandatory prerequisites: Code of Laws, Calendar, Optics.

Alphabet: No longer enables tech trading, allows Open Borders. Base cost reduced to 250.

Metal Casting: Base cost reduced to 300.

Writing: Enables Map trading, no longer enables OB.

Philosophy: Mandatory Prerequisite: Priesthood, Monotheism. Optional prerequisites: Drama, Code of Laws.

Meditation: Base tech cost increased to 100

Paper: enables Tech Trading. Mandatory Prerequisite: Metal Casting. Optional prerequisites: Theology, Civil Service.

Democracy: Base tech cost reduced from 2800 to 2100

Utopia (Communism): Base tech cost reduced from 2800 to 2100

Fascism: Base tech cost reduced from 2100 to 1800. Mandatory Prerequisite: Democracy. Option prerequisites: Utopia (Communism).

Industrialism: Mandatory prerequisites: Electricity, Fascism. Optional Prerequisite: Assembly Line

All medieval and earlier techs are untradeable:

The untradeable techs are as follows: Fishing, The Wheel, Agriculture, Hunting, Mysticism, Mining, Sailing, Pottery, Animal Husbandry, Archery, Meditation, Polytheism, Masonry, Horseback Riding, Priesthood, Monotheism, Bronze Working, Writing, Metal Casting, Iron Working, Aesthetics, Mathematics, Alphabet, Monarchy, Compass, Literature, Calendar, Construction, Currency, Machinery, Drama, Engineering, Code of Laws, Feudalism, Optics, Music, Philosophy, Civil Service, Theology, Divine Right, Paper, Guilds, Banking

Late Era start games:

Era starts: (Changes from base BtS, found in CIV4EraInfos.xml)

Classical: 2 settlers, 100% tech cost
Medi: 80% tech cost
Ren: 70% tech cost
Industrial: 40% tech cost
Modern: 30% tech cost
Future: No changes

Espionage:

Active missions removed.

Spies now spawn with "Secretive", and cannot see tiles except the one they're standing on.

The No Espionage game option now works properly:

• GSpy points are converted into Great Merchant points.
  
• Espionage no longer gets converted into culture.
  
• Cultural expansion now happens at normal values.
  
• Spies cannot be built.
  
• Graphs are always visible on contact.
  

Tile Changes:

Lumber Mills: Available at Machinery. +1 hammer, +1 commerce, +1 commerce from river (not corner plots)

Watermills: +1 base hammers, no longer receives +1h at Rep Parts.

Workshops: +1 base hammers, no longer receives +1h at Chemistry or Guilds. +1 hammer from Engineering.

Mines: +1 base hammer at Rep Parts.

Quarry: +1 base hammer at Rep Parts.

Whaling Boats: Enabled at Sailing.

Villages: Cannot be destroyed by air bomb mission or pillaged. Also provides access and tile yields to Copper, Iron, Oil, Coal, Aluminium and Uranium. (Can still be improved over by workers)

Towns: Cannot be destroyed by air bomb mission. Also provides access and tile yields to Copper, Iron, Oil, Coal, Aluminium and Uranium. (Can still be improved over by workers). Acts as cities. [Identical functionality as forts, for the purposes of rebasing air units, canals, city defense and city attack promotions etc].

Game Mechanics:

The Draft: Rifles now cost 2 pop to draft. A city must now end a draft at size 6 instead of size 5 (So size 8 to draft a rifle, size 7 to draft a musket).

Corporations: Completely removed from the game.

Culture required to achieve legendary border pop on Quick Speed changed from 25000 to 33000.

Peace Treaty Length reduced to 5 turns.

New game options: No City Trading, No Map Trading, and No Wonder resource production modifiers now available in custom game set up.

No City Trading: Unable to trade cities, cities appear untradable in diplomacy screen
No Map Trading: Maps appear untradable in diplomacy screen
No Wonder resource modifiers: Resources do not affect world wonder or world project construction speeds.
No Immediate Peace (Peace treaty negotiations are only possible after 5 turns)
True AI Diplo: All single player trade items are also available in MP

Events: THESE HAVE NOW BEEN FIXED! PLEASE TEST ACCORDINGLY, THERE MAY STILL BE BUGS!

The following events have been removed from the game:

Negative Events:
1. Forest Fire
5. Washed out
10 Careless apprentice
11. Famine
12. Slave revolt
15. Farm Bandits
18. Fugitive
19. Pestilence
21. Faux Pas
22. Joyous Wedding
23. Wedding Feud
24. Left at the Altar
26. Tornado
29. Looters
30. Brothers in need
31. Hurricane
32. Cyclone
33. Tsunami
34. Monsoon
35. Blizzard
36. Volcano
37. Dust Bowl
42. Clunker Coal
43. Sour crude
50. Mining accident
52. Setbacks
54. Great depression
55. Bermuda triangle
70. Influenza
71. Solo Flight
77. Ancient Olympics
78. Modern Olympics
80. Earth day
92. Cigarette Smoker
93. Heroic Gesture
94. Great Mediator
99. The Huns
100. The Vandals
101. the Goths
102. The Philistines
103. The Vedic Aryans
104. Holy ritual
132. Spoiled grain
135. Industrial fire
155. Slave revolt warning
160. Defecting agent
161. Jail
162. Spy discovered
163. Nuclear protests
165. Broken Dam
169. Toxcatl
170. Dissident Priest
172. Rogue station
174. Impeachment

Remove (Too good):
9. Hymns and sculptures
20. Marathon
28. Bards tale
64. Federal reserve
139. Partisans
167. Golden Buddha

Quests (Too good):
13. Blessed sea
121. Harbomaster
125. Sports league
149. Guns Butter
151. Overwhelm
152. Corporate expansion
153. Hostile takeover

Miscellaneous:

AP Resolutions: Declare War (on a non-member), Force Peace (between two members), Religious victory, and Assign City are no longer eligible resolution actions.

Fail-gold: You never get fail-gold if you also completed the wonder somewhere else (so no National Wonder fail-gold, or doubling up on a wonder to guarantee yourself a paycheck. The game still informs you that you received "0 gold" from your hammers).

Hut techs: Can only gain techs from the first three rows of the tech screen:

Fishing, Sailing, Wheel, Pottery, Agriculture, Animal Husbandry, Hunting, Archery, Mysticism, Masonry, Priesthood, Mining, Bronze Working, Writing.

Toroidal maps: Now return city maintenance as if the map were Cylindrical.

Maximum number of players is now 40, up from 18.

Circumnavigation requires 55% water on the map, otherwise it is disabled. Circumnavigation is no longer a "First to" bonus, but will grant +1 movement to naval units to each player as they individually navigate the map and complete the necessary conditions.

Included additional bug fixes:

Trade route turn order bug.

Foreign trade route cities lost permanently when your city using those routes is destroyed (fix is taken from BTS unofficial patch).

Build culture double production.

Build wealth/research/culture + production automation double production.

Proposed trades including cities, where the cities no longer exist to be trades, are not cancelled (note: I consider this a bug because proposed trades are already cancelled if a player lacks the requisite e.g. resources/gold. could be considered not a bug).

Production decay counter on a type of build (e.g. axeman) is not reset after completing one if the next item in the queue is of the same type (fix is taken from BTS unofficial patch).

Feature growth/disappearance rates, and bonus discovery (mine pop) rates, do not scale with game speed.

Diplomacy Pausing: Diplomacy windows do not occur on game login whilst the game is paused.

Autosaves: Autosaves are generated at login and log out; log out saves are saved to a folder specified within the global defines XML file. Default location is C:\temp.

Additional alterations have been made to enable hosting of games on the pitboss server belonging to Zulan. These changes are detailed here

Observer mode

Observer mode is functional but disabled due to bandwidth issues. Requires pitboss logging enabled, and for the host to  run the observer program. Observer mode is then accessible at a preset web address. Only available in Pitboss, additional server side applications required for functionality, available from teh following links.

Pitboss Observer: https://github.com/novice-rb/observer
Pitboss Portal: https://github.com/novice-rb/pitboss-portal

And thanks to Charriu in implementing the Game options and sorting out the DLL for this version of the mod

Original post below:

Below is what I've put together that I want to discuss for a test game. I'm going out for a bit though, so I'll post my reasoning later.

Ideally this mod would be tested in an 8-12 player, standard game. Probably Big and Small map, as that is a forum favourite, but something that has water is a minimum. The naval changes could probably do with a late era test game as well.

Traits: Industrious: +50% wonder production. Does not apply to Pyramids. +100% production of Forge. +35% production of Bank, University. -15% civic maintenance.
Financial: +1 commerce on all non-river tiles that have 2+ commerce. +100% production of Bank. +35% production of Library, Market.

Civs: Native America: Consider increasing cost of Tracker to 20 hammers, change Totem Pole to require Archery not Mysticism, obsolete at Assembly Line and give +1XP to Gunpowder units. Upgrades to Explorer and Musketman.
India: Change UB to: Granary Replacement: Name. Cost 45, +1 happy, no bonus production from trait.
Spain: Change UB to: Castle UB: Citadel. -20% city maintenance. +2 culture. No espionage bonus. +2XP to siege units. Does not obsolete. (Can still be built by Conquestador).

Terrain changes:
Ocean: Now costs 3 movement points to enter.

Buildings:
Harbour: +2XP to naval units.
Lighthouse: +1XP to naval units.
Customshouse: +3XP to naval units, cost 120.
Drydock: +7XP to naval units.

Units: Crossbowman: Strength 6, 1 free strike, +50% against melee units, +25% defense against macemen. Archery unit, requires iron, Archery, Machinery, and Construction. iCollateralDamageLimit: 40%; iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 3 (causes maximum 40hp damage through collateral, collateral damage hits maximum 3 units)

Caravel: Base movement 2. Starts with Navigation 1.
Carrack: Base movement 3.
Galleon: Base movement 3. Starts with Mobility.
East Indiaman: Base movement 3. Starts with Mobility.
Privateer: Base movement 4. [Sentry].
Frigate: Base movement 4.
Ship of the Line: Base movement 3.
Ironclad: Base movement 1. Starts with Navigation 1
Transport: Base movement 4. Starts with Mobility.
Destroyer: Base movement 6. Starts with Mobility.
Battleship: Base movement 4. Starts with Navigation 1, Mobility.
Carrier: Base movement 5. Starts with Mobility.
Submarine: Base movement 4. Ignores terrain movement costs.
Attack Submarine: Base movement 5. Ignores terrain movement costs.
Missle cruiser: Base movement 5. Starts with Navigation 1, Mobility.
Stealth Destroyer: Base movement 7. Starts with Mobility.

Airship: Cannot see submarines.

New Game option: No Immediate Peace Treaties: Peace Treaties cannot be signed until 5 turns after war declaration unless a city has been captured by one of the two parties.

PS. That last one is if it is codeable in the DLL.

[Charriu]

New Game option: No Immediate Peace Treaties: Peace Treaties cannot be signed until 5 turns after war declaration unless a city has been captured by one of the two parties.

PS. That last one is if it is codeable in the DLL.

That would be my call. I will have a look at it as soon as I have time to spare. What about the following things:

• Cease fires: I expect those remain unchanged by this option?
  
• City razing: Does city razing also trigger the peace treaty negotiation?
  

[Krill]

Basically: civ A declares on civ B on TX. Peace can't be signed until TX+5 OR civ A takes a city from civ B or Civ B takes a city from civ A. What happens to that city is irrelevant: it could be razed or kept, but it has no effect on the ability to sign peace.

eg Civ A declares on Civ B on TX and takes the second part of the turn. On TX+2 civ B captures a city from Civ A: Civ B can immediately offer peace on TX+2.

Second example. Civ A declares on Civ B on TX and takes the second part of the turn. On TX+1 civ C declares on Civ B and takes the first part of the turn timer, causing a Civ C>Civ B>Civ A turn split. Civ C can offer peace to Civ B immediately, however Civ B cannot offer peace treaty to Civ A or vice versa.

With regards to ceasefires, I leave that one up in the air. I can see reasons for treating ceasefires as peace treaties (no using war declares as leverage at all, or as a diplomatic tool) or leaving them in (it can lead to extremely interesting geopolitical situations and rapid situational changes). I'd lean towards the latter in for test game and revisit it afterwards for further discussion.

[Charriu]

Great I can work with that.

While I'm at it, I always wondered if it would be possible to add the AI diplo options like "Declare war on" and "Stop trading with" to the MP game. Would there be any interest in adding those for diplo between humans and making our standard "AI diplo" setting a true AI diplo setting?

[Krill]

I believe if that was coded as a game option and used in a test game, that could be something worth exploring, if players wanted to. It is essentially codifying the iron for iron and fish for fish trades.

[Krill]

4.1.1.1 Test mod

Traits: Industrious: +50% wonder production. Does not apply to Pyramids. +100% production of Forge. +35% production of Bank, University. -15% civic maintenance.
Financial: +1 commerce on all non-river tiles that have 2+ commerce. +100% production of Bank. +35% production of Library, Market.

The FIN change follows on from the IND change, so I'll start with IND:

[I've] Been thinking about IND a bit. Mulled it over, but I think there might be a potential solution that doesn't require a significant number or type of change to make IND viable for both random and snake pick methods.

Essentially, the group RB opinion on IND in base BtS is that unless you get one of Henge, Oracle, GLH or Mids, it wasn't worth the pick. I don't think that view changed significantly in RtR, but I don't think it's quite the same.

Another view on IND is that in a snake pick, whomever is top of the pick order has the advantage of last picking IND to get an advantage over all the other players to potentially grab one of these wonders; the other side of the coin is that in random picks, a bunch of players get IND (PB13?) and then someone, or even several players, end up losing out on the wonders.

I don't think the first point is entirely fair, because players at the top of the list have the same advantage with picking for Myst and a clean shot at a religion, and this is balanced against the perfect synergy at the bottom of the pick order. The second point is a reason why the general level of the trait can be accepted as needing a buff, but then it can push IND into a very strong position if it locks out a major wonder AND gives other solid bonuses.

To go back to the second sentence...in RTR, I don't think that any of the wonders are that important, with the exception of Mids. Picking IND to get the other 3 wonders isn't gamebreaking, but for Mids it really can be. But it is possible, trivial in fact, to remove the IND bonus from Mids. It's a single line of XML (OK, 4 lines), that sets PRODUCTIONTRAIT=-50, to cancel out the innate IND production bonus on wonders, that applies just to Mids. All others, national, world wonders and projects, are unaffected by this sort of change.

If the Mids issue is accepted as true, then we can just build off the basic IND package. IND has to have some form of a benefit that will be an "always on" effect, that counter balances the "randomness" of the wonder production bonus. It shouldn't be massive, but it has to exist, otherwise it is very likely that the trait lacks any real power compared to traits like AGG, CHM or ORG. The civic cost reduction is 30% of the amount set in ORG, and really starts to kick in in late Classical era. By that point every other trait is starting to have an effect, this just keeps IND, well, in the game really. The Forge bonus is no different, but the Bank and Uni changes have a two fold effect: They help to get IND building OU and WS in the Ren era, but that is a small effect than the 50 hammer reduction (maximum). That hammer reduction can give IND the opportunity to vram in those buildings just as the fireworks start in the Ren era (because buildings are unlocked in the Classical and Medieval eras, but the Ren era is mostly units, tile improvement upgrades and civics with Taj, West Point and first two tech bonuses in Lib and Economics).

How does this compare to ORG? Forge = Courthouse, but courthouse is actually more important unless you are insanely deprived of happy cap space (PB42 expereience, I don't even think that this is entirely true, I just accept the courthouse as more important now). Then ORG has an extra 35% civic cost reduction and cheap lighthouses. IND has the wonder bonus. ORG is a lot easier to use, but IND can scrape together Henge, or GLH, or MoM...so IND probably has the higher skill cap and still has to overcome the always on effect from the extra civic bonus. So that feels OK. The Bank and university cost reduction is 50 hammers maximum, but cost reduction from a forge and OR would be 65-ish hammers for any civ anyway. With that in mind, I think the Uni and Bank cost reduction keeps IND in line with ORG through to the end of the ren era easily. I think it's balanced.

That brings us to FIN. Between FIN and ORG it used to be relatively balanced, but FIN has fallen by the wayside for a while now. It picked up the cheap lib bonus, but FIN doesn't really pick up until a player gets hamlets on none riverside tiles. Otherwise the bonus only works on coast, which is it's own opporunity cost compared to working other tiles. Is it playable? On a random leader/civ pair, yeah, but is it pickable? Can a player bring themselves to pick FIN against ORG, SPI, AGG or CHM? FIN has to grow pop and work tiles to benefit from the extra commerce, but AGG and ORG just get cheaper stuff for free. CHM has the higher happy cap so is not as limited to grow the pop needed to work tiles anyway, in a striaght comparison CHM can pretty much always just "work more cottages" compared to FIN. Of cource CHM has to pay for the population, but the real benefit from CHM is the easier promotions when you come to fight, the happy isn't even the majority of the CHM trait popwer compared to what defines FIN.

FIN has to have that bit more in the Classical era. Giving it slightly cheaper markets gives FIN what it needs: the opportunity to grow to work the tiles it needs to, either from teh extra happy (up to +4 happiness in a single city) and the gold to afford more cities. It gives it a bit of a boost, but to be clear: It saves fewer than 37 hammers on a single market. It's objectively not a huge boon, but those saved hammers are what will make the market whippable without stupid amounts of pop (double whip is 67 hammers, triple whip is 94 hammers). This isn't a major change really, but just pushes FIN up a bit and makes it pickable now IMO.

Civs: Native America: Consider increasing cost of Tracker to 20 hammers, change Totem Pole to obsolete at Assembly Line and give +1XP to Gunpowder units. Upgrades to Explorer and Musketman.
India: Change UB to: Granary Replacement: Name. Cost 45, +1 happy, no bonus production from trait.
Spain: Change UB to: Castle UB: Citadel. -20% city maintenance. +2 culture. No espionage bonus. +2XP to siege units. Does not obsolete. (Can still be built by Conquestador).

OK, short answer: The civ rebalances help to make the late game and the weird combination leader traits pickable. The late game leaders are at risk of being rushed or strangled in the cradle: Pick Inca to cover the early game border pops and speed up growth a bit. Pick Babylon to counter chokes and threatened axe rushes. But there are only two granary civs. A third helps to round that out a little: Pick India if you need to ensure you can grow the pop and have that bit more flexibility.

The slightly longer answer to it is this: Horizontal (city maintenance) and vertical expansion (happy) limits exist for each leader/civ combo. Taking an ealry game focused leader and an early game focused civ that speeds up expansion but does nothing to alleviate these limits just leads to the combination smashing into those boundaries earlier and earlier without the tech to dig themselves out. With this in mind, I am not as concerned about players pairing Inca with Joai: it only has a -10% city maintenance bonus, which isn't even an extra city cost covered until you start pushing 8 or so cities. Boudicca is a good example of a leader that used to be considered unplayable, but she has relaxed expansion limits because of both traits (extra 2 pop per city, -25% city maintenance). But she is not quick at expansion and can find herself at the sharp end of an invasion before she is able to deal with that. Pairing Bouddica with Babylon or India can give her the route to pick up that speed, but the opportunity cost is the lack of increased total output (each pop point is no better at creating output, and the AGG city maintenance reduction has to be supported by courthouses all the same). It's how all of the leader and civs combine that will provide more replayability by making each and every leader and civ usable in the right circumstances. To do that, we need to make sure the civs that work with the leaders themselves also exist (whereas we have just been comparing civs between themselves to make sure they are balanced compared to each other, not consider the context within which the civs are actually used)

Spain is a reversion to a castle UB because changing India opens that back up, but because the Citedal doesn't obsolete, it means that is another trade route available after Corp that other civs don't have access to. It's a bit of a hodge podge, but it is honest to the original implementation of the Citedal, but also gives an economic boost due to the city maiontenance, it fits with the colonial nature of Spain, and it can be an immediate boost in new cities because of the UU later on.

Other civs like Native America are interesting because of the border popping, but there is still (on my part) a concern it lacks a bit of power. I would not want to front load it, because then that risks being paired with an early game leader to roflstomp someone (ie, don't give it more XP on melee units). This change prolongs the value of the UB a bit, as it works in the age of muskets to grens and rifles, but not infantry and ensures that the tracker doesn't obsolete too early. It does mean that any city with both XP civics working only needs the TP to make 2 promo rifles, but other than that mainly helps CHM. Not sure if this is an ideal change, but this is the thinking behind it. NA are also another civ that can work with late game leaders, but frankly it can work with any leader combo to some extent.

Buildings:
Harbour: +2XP to naval units.
Lighthouse: +1XP to naval units.
Customshouse: +3XP to naval units, cost 120.
Drydock: +7XP to naval units.

Don't shoot me, but add all these together with XP civics = 17XP, or 4 promo boats for all civs, which helps to manage the power of CHM in naval warfare. It also brings forward the available XP so that we can get double promo boats for all civs before Astronomy bulbs (ie for galleys and triremes with both XP civis and a lighthouse). Theo+Vassalage is no longer the province of making CHM boats unbeatable, now none CHM can use a lighthouse to match that. The Harbour provides and easy way to work around a missing civic up to double promotions, and then the customs house pushes everyone to triple promotions. Drydock alone then puts everyone to minimum double promotion, and easily attainable triple promotion.

Ultimately allowing every player to reach up to 4 promo boats is not wrong, just so long as players have to make the choices how they get there. This also makes West Point unlockable for every player without using a GG FWIW.

Terrain changes:
Ocean: Now costs 3 movement points to enter.

This has one aim: To stop attacks out of the fog being one of the most stressful parts of playing a turn. So long as players are not having to constantly worry about one turn attacks out of the fog, we might actually be able to play the late game without burning out. This, along with the movement and promotion changes, can make the game playable.

Units: Crossbowman: Strength 6, 1 free strike, +50% against melee units, +25% defense against macemen. Archery unit, requires iron, Archery, Machinery, and Construction. iCollateralDamageLimit: 40%; iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 3 (causes maximum 40hp damage through collateral, collateral damage hits maximum 3 units)

Caravel: Base movement 2. Starts with Navigation 1.
Carrack: Base movement 3.
Galleon: Base movement 3. Starts with Mobility.
East Indiaman: Base movement 3. Starts with Mobility.
Privateer: Base movement 4. [Sentry].
Frigate: Base movement 4.
Ship of the Line: Base movement 3.
Ironclad: Base movement 1. Starts withn Navigation 1
Transport: Base movement 4. Starts with Mobility.
Destroyer: Base movement 6. Starts with Mobility.
Battleship: Base movement 4. Starts with Navigation 1, Mobility.
Carrier: Base movement 5. Starts with Mobility.
Submarine: Base movement 4. Ignores terrain movement costs.
Attack Submarine: Base movement 5. Ignores terrain movement costs.
Missle cruiser: Base movement 5. Starts with Navigation 1, Mobility.
Stealth Destroyer: Base movement 7. Starts with Mobility.

Airship: Cannot see submarines

The Crossbow change is discussed here

The boat changes are based around moving through ocean tiles. Galleons with N2 and circumnavigation can move 3 tiles/turn in ocean, and N2 is easily attainable at that point. Privateers and frigates are faster through coast but just as fast through ocean. Transports can reach 4 tiles over ocean, and DD can reach 5 tiles over ocean. But add in coastal tiles into the mix and suddenly the terrain movements become significantly more complex and gives players terrain to fight over.

Submarines can move up to 7 tiles, Attack subs 8. And they can carry missiles. As the game moves into the modern era, then sentry nets to catch the more nimble subs becomes more important (because fuck the airship making everything redundant).

Promotions: Navigation 1: Has no prerequisite promotion
Navigation 2: Requires Navigation 1

Combined with the amount of XP available, N1 and N2 are available earlier, with the circumnavigation change that is a potential 5 move galley along coast. Which is no different than players make with GG. Mobility is there to lower the cost of ocean travel for later units, however it makes attack paths through ocean much, much more manageable. Most attack paths will be quickest by moving along coast, with that in mind, maintaining control off islands and coastal spots will be important for enabling quick paths over oceans. But playing zone defense becomes much more possible if you can keep defensive boats that have combat blocking coastal routes in the early game. Even if a strike force takes N2, you can easily have C2 or C3 boats with good odds present on defense to cover the area.There will be significantly more nuance in the promotions taken in addition to the tactics present.

New Game option: No Immediate Peace Treaties: Peace Treaties cannot be signed until 5 turns after war declaration unless a city has been captured by one of the two parties.

This should be obvious, and it should be implemented as a game option.

Thoughts?

[Charriu]

Traits: Industrious: +50% wonder production. Does not apply to Pyramids. +100% production of Forge. +35% production of Bank, University. -15% civic maintenance.

I shamefully wanted to bring up one idea I proposed in the other thread:

A production bonus for mechanical units (ships, siege and armored units)

also this offer still stands:

I also looked at T-Hawks Financial implementation. It's in the DLL as I thought and controlled via the flag "ENABLE_FINANCIAL_RIVERSIDE_PENALTY". Feel free to think up anything else for Industrious. I would love to do any change in the DLL if it avoids another trait with maintenance bonus.

Financial: +1 commerce on all non-river tiles that have 2+ commerce. +100% production of Bank. +35% production of Library, Market.

I like the change. It's very fitting for the theme. If this still doesn't help to make Fin a little bit popular, then there's still the option to fiddle with the trade bonus.

Civs: Native America: Consider increasing cost of Tracker to 20 hammers, change Totem Pole to obsolete at Assembly Line and give +1XP to Gunpowder units. Upgrades to Explorer and Musketman.
India: Change UB to: Granary Replacement: Name. Cost 45, +1 happy, no bonus production from trait.
Spain: Change UB to: Castle UB: Citadel. -20% city maintenance. +2 culture. No espionage bonus. +2XP to siege units. Does not obsolete. (Can still be built by Conquestador).

Native America looks like a step in the right direction. By the way another nice tiny thing for Native America would be to move Totem Pole from Mysticism to Archery. With that players only need one tech to get the full Archery package. Archery is also reasonable cheap for this.
India looks like a rather boring UB to me. To get me wrong it has its uses, but it's not as flashy or interesting as other buildings.
Spain: Although the custom house replacement was also fitting for the civ, I understand the move back to Castle. Like it.

Buildings:
Harbour: +2XP to naval units.
Lighthouse: +1XP to naval units.
Customshouse: +3XP to naval units, cost 120.
Drydock: +7XP to naval units.

Without checking the actual numbers, it feels like the naval units get a lot more expierence from buildings then the land units get, right? But then again your argument about CHM on water is actual a good point. This may be a step in the right direction.

Terrain changes:
Ocean: Now costs 3 movement points to enter.

Caravel: Base movement 2. Starts with Navigation 1.
Carrack: Base movement 3.
Galleon: Base movement 3. Starts with Mobility.
East Indiaman: Base movement 3. Starts with Mobility.
Privateer: Base movement 4. [Sentry].
Frigate: Base movement 4.
Ship of the Line: Base movement 3.
Ironclad: Base movement 1. Starts withn Navigation 1
Transport: Base movement 4. Starts with Mobility.
Destroyer: Base movement 6. Starts with Mobility.
Battleship: Base movement 4. Starts with Navigation 1, Mobility.
Carrier: Base movement 5. Starts with Mobility.
Submarine: Base movement 4. Ignores terrain movement costs.
Attack Submarine: Base movement 5. Ignores terrain movement costs.
Missle cruiser: Base movement 5. Starts with Navigation 1, Mobility.
Stealth Destroyer: Base movement 7. Starts with Mobility.

Airship: Cannot see submarines

Promotions: Navigation 1: Has no prerequisite promotion
Navigation 2: Requires Navigation 1

I tackle all of these changes at once, as all of them more or less have the theme of mobility on water. I'm very curious how this will turn out. I understand the problem of late-game fatigue, but I think more experienced players can say more about this.

[Krill]

Traits: Industrious: +50% wonder production. Does not apply to Pyramids. +100% production of Forge. +35% production of Bank, University. -15% civic maintenance.

I shamefully wanted to bring up one idea I proposed in the other thread:

A production bonus for mechanical units (ships, siege and armored units)

also this offer still stands:

I also looked at T-Hawks Financial implementation. It's in the DLL as I thought and controlled via the flag "ENABLE_FINANCIAL_RIVERSIDE_PENALTY". Feel free to think up anything else for Industrious. I would love to do any change in the DLL if it avoids another trait with maintenance bonus.

On the former: I've tried to figure out how to value cheaper units. Armoured units, a bonus is essentially irrelevant given how few games go that long. Naval units I think any meaningful bonus is significantly more map dependent than any other trait (due to land types). Siege units is where the bonus could be useful, but the problem then arises how to value that. Even a +100% bonus is extremely awkward to use, because if it is taken to mean a player is expected to have double the number of cats, then they have to pay for those extra units in unit cost. If a player just uses it to save hammers, then it becomes a deterrent and has the same problem that PRO had before it got the granary bonus: ignore it, grow the economy, get better units, kill. I don't think that any effects in this area are particularly usable.

On the latter, getting something more inventive, I have ideas. I just don't think they fit particularly well: Make each building give an extra bonus to IND of some description? Completely impossible to balance. Make IND give extra tile yield? Possible to balance, but to make something like this the main plank of the trait requires pretty much perfection and would require a lot of testing: +1 hammer on certain tiles? If it required (outside a GA, like FIN):

• 5 hammers, it would not have an effect until Engineering and Caste plains workshops or RP mines. So it distorts civics, which distorts tech path, and has no effect until the end of the Medieval era at the earliest.
  
  
• 4 hammers, plains hills and Eng+Caste grassland workshops, Eng or Caste plains workshops. Same distortion, but even greater because of the payoff of sitting in Caste.
  
  
• 3 hammers, every mine, every workshop and a general 25% base hammer increase over all other civs, which is just going to get labelled as broken.
  
  
• What if we do it differently? +1 hammer on tiles that make 1 hammer only? So plains cottages becomes 1/2/X, and start to pay off. But it distorts Universal Suffrage, it distorts windmills, grass forests becomes 4 yield tiles and in the early game there is almost no reason to improve anything except food and cottage. (Also, 2/2 are really broken. PB26 gave us insight into a lot of things, hammers with no food deficit leads to stupendous growth and then everything explodes). And then Levees.
  
  
• Try to refine this a bit further: What if it was based around giving other yields? Commerce? Overlap with FIN is too much. Food? Giving food is a very dangerous area to go, and even +1 food on 5 hammer tiles is the functional equivalent of SP on plains workshops and any hill mine due to railroads in tile yield.

No, tile yield changes are not a sound idea for changes in this mod environment (in another mod, they can work, but not here, at this stage of development). The trade route idea is difficult, because it is essentially free hammers from the ether with no associated food, happy, city maintenance, inflation, or health cost. Keep in mind that even a perfectly tooled up city will rarely exceed 40 base hammers, and even 5 free hammers is the equivalent of 3 pop points worth of profit.

I feel that keeping IND in line with what already exists is probably a better options; the IND implementation used in PB42 was voiced several years ago, and lots of players thought it would be fun to try. We never really knew how it would work out, but no real harm in trying it. We did, and we judged it completely wrong. It's incredibly easy to make mistakes with those judgement calls. This implementation fits in with the original IND, and is changed in line with the other trait balance changes we've come to the conclusion work. So better to try this and then see IMO.

Financial: +1 commerce on all non-river tiles that have 2+ commerce. +100% production of Bank. +35% production of Library, Market.

I like the change. It's very fitting for the theme. If this still doesn't help to make Fin a little bit popular, then there's still the option to fiddle with the trade bonus.[/quote]

Truth be told, if players don't try this then I wouldn't make any further changes until someone did: player perception of power is usually quite skewed and not the best judge. Part of picking the right changes is understanding player perception.

Civs: Native America: Consider increasing cost of Tracker to 20 hammers, change Totem Pole to obsolete at Assembly Line and give +1XP to Gunpowder units. Upgrades to Explorer and Musketman.
India: Change UB to: Granary Replacement: Name. Cost 45, +1 happy, no bonus production from trait.
Spain: Change UB to: Castle UB: Citadel. -20% city maintenance. +2 culture. No espionage bonus. +2XP to siege units. Does not obsolete. (Can still be built by Conquestador).

Native America looks like a step in the right direction. By the way another nice tiny thing for Native America would be to move Totem Pole from Mysticism to Archery. With that players only need one tech to get the full Archery package. Archery is also reasonable cheap for this.
India looks like a rather boring UB to me. To get me wrong it has its uses, but it's not as flashy or interesting as other buildings.
Spain: Although the custom house replacement was also fitting for the civ, I understand the move back to Castle. Like it.

Ooh, good point on NA. Archery for the TP is a good fit. I'll add that now.

India looks boring because no one knows how to value a strength 8, 60 hammer unit that beats the shit out of knights that comes on a weird tech (that now gives the workshop hammer bonus) and can take City Raider. Everyone just thinks "Pike" and forgets that it is cheaper than a mace and gets just as good odds as the mace against Xbows (and as good as old maces against Xbows). The UB is what allows you to pick leaders like Ramses, Asoka or Darius and to know that economically you can manage the early game well enough. In a snake pick having the 3 Granary civs means you can go either leader or civ first and be flexible.

Buildings:
Harbour: +2XP to naval units.
Lighthouse: +1XP to naval units.
Customshouse: +3XP to naval units, cost 120.
Drydock: +7XP to naval units.

Without checking the actual numbers, it feels like the naval units get a lot more experience from buildings then the land units get, right? But then again your argument about CHM on water is actual a good point. This may be a step in the right direction.

[/quote]

Yeah, boats would get more promotions available, but the only lines of relevance are: Flanking (1-2), Bombard (1-3), Combat (1-5), Navigation (1-2). The amount of promotions helps to make up for the lack of rock/paper/scissors in the later unit types, but earlier on, pre-drydocks, you don't get over 3 promotions and then it's the effect between picking combat and navigation affecting unit tactics.

[superdeath]

I would think that making IND kinda along the lines of RTR FIN would be kinda fun, +1 hammers to all non-hill tiles with 2 or more hammers? That plus 100%production speed forges, and MAYBE something else? Too broke? Not good enough?

[Cheater Hater]

When you talk about distorting civics/tech path, isn't that a good thing? The whole point of having different playable factions is that they play differently, right? The reason not to is that it becomes more difficult to balance (unless you go "everything is broken" ala Marvel vs Capcom), but strategies are already mostly homogeneous in the big picture (you derive most early production from Slavery/chops, you expand just enough that you can barely get to Currency, you conquer people somewhere between Knights and Cavs, etc.). Obviously those changes might be too good if used optimally, but that should be different than not liking it because it's different. For instance, going to Industrious specifically, maybe saying +1 hammer on grassland (or non-plains) means they don't have to rely on Slavery in the early game and produce a meaningfully different play pattern?