[PB66 Spoilers] Miguelito and Ginger split the bill

[Ginger()]

The joys of not being CRE.
Did you remember to switch off the FP to the Sheep to finish t26 EOT or are you doing t27 settler to fit the worker/tech micro?

[Miguelito]

Yessir!


Growing 24/24, with max overflow from the finished warrior, into the 100/100 settler, as projected

Cre would in fact have been very useful for us here. I've had games (59, 90, 54) where I never missed it, but here we'll build monuments in our first 2 new cities, and maybe more going forward. (Still not sure I'd like for a second city to work rubbish tiles for its first 5 turns, but that's a different topic).

[Miguelito]

turn 21, of unmatched excitement!

I haven't been able to replicate your fortify scrying.


That worker was fortified after moving. I have also tried not fortifying him, and I think I also tried the scout before moving once, but nothing happened.
Curious how to do it right, because you were correct indeed:



I started an SP match to confirm the colour, and that's Amicalola with Washington of Khmer. They might be the strongest player in the field (well there's Plemo), but otoh I think the rush danger factor is rather limited. They don't really like to provoke a very early conflict - not that they'd shy away from it either - and in the phase that's critical for us between t35-55 I expect them to be rather busy getting cheap granaries and monuments up.
Washington is of course an uncomfortable neighbour to have, particularly considering how slow our combo is. Washington is very good here for the Cha happy, and possible that makes early granaries worthwhile as well despite all the excess food. Still better than Best Active CIV Player with Toku of Rome. 
Now that pig sadly will not be ours. Ideally we  get dye-E as a border city. The danger is losing the whole coast going south from the dyes, and actually that doesn't look unlikely. Do you see a way of moving orange dot in order to better project ourselves here? I do not really.

You also see that vanrober made contact. I don't know from which direction he came. That's a neighbour that I can't complain about. I also rate his rush probability low. He has a tendency to undersell himself, and I think some authentic lack of confidence is at least partially the cause. I also think that he has some respect towards me, which might as  well prevent him from doing something impulsive.
Last time we played in the same game (54) he also had the Mongols. He had some fun in that game but we could force him to concede with phracts from boats. Here he is Cre which is of course always annoying, but again, there's worse.
I just hope his capital isn't also just 11 tiles away like Amica's.

[Miguelito]

Dotmap proposal:


Order of settling: red - orange - wherever copper is - violet - purple/green - blue - yellow

I don't love violet, but it's the only workable spot I see. Hopefully we can get it. Interesting question then whether orange gets a monument, because violet sure does, asap. We want to connect that stone quickly, but maybe prioritizing violet we can spare ourselves the one in orange? Especially if we somehow already have copper in borders (I can see it being placed on that plains tile NNW of orange. Do we want to move the city north, just based on that speculation? But then the gap to violet becomes concerning...)

No seafood at all on the eastern coast, btw. That SW corner is one of the juicier parts of the map, relatively speaking, so I really hope we don't have to cede it to Amica.

Also I somehow missed this, many turns ago in fact:


Unsurprisingly it's Tarvac with Spain. Good for them. With our start I don't see how we could spare beakers for indulgencies before t50.

[Miguelito]

Rules question: vanrober made contact on t20 or 21, playing a double turn (actually I could find out by checking EP, but can't connect rn). We didn't see his unit.
Would it be kosher to PM him and ask whether in a sequential turn order we would've seen his unit, and where? I know that I have provided this information in previous games when that situation came up (at least pb54 to Elkad, maybe 59 as well? Not sure)

[Ginger()]

Already sent the pm
It’s pretty standard as far as I’ve read.
Dot map looks good and Amica border decently stable. Only gripe is that Orange and Dye city are a bit far, but don’t think that can be helped.
What does red dot lose by being moved to plains hill? Sea access and incense? Seems much better to have early hammer and capital cottage sharing

[Miguelito]

Sigh. The problem with the FPH city is that I instinctively hate it. Like, it has nothing long term. I understand rationally that it makes a lot of sense for short term (you didn't mention the much earlier trade route and lower cost, but that's also quite significant).
My idea for red was to build the mids there. The city could start dumping hammers into them as early as ~t55. The FPH has 3 forests less (and claims one that I would've liked for purple). Also just 3 lines, although that provably is enough with low HC and AH. And it does get started quicker, no doubt.
I might succumb, in the interest of the snowball.
Which other mids city do you see? Violet maybe, but it gets set up much later and is going to be on the border...

[Miguelito]

I simmed both variants yesterday. The FPH has its problems; with no forest tiles first ring and no whip we end up working bare hills for a few turns. But overall I have to admit that it's better, notably getting BW 2 turns earlier, which is the fastest I've achieved and might be the difference of life vs death yet. I also had missed that it has a 3rd forest, so my dot's relative advantage is less.

So, green light for the FPH.

I'll be traveling for two weeks starting tomorrow. I'm taking the laptop and look forward to playing, but on the days when we're on the road it would probably be better if you could cover. Are you available?
I'll post the plan for the next few turns tonight.

[Miguelito]

 
Ok, this will not be the decapitation that I hoped for, unless Amica is oblivious. They're not in slavery, but assuming their cap is size 3 they certainly have the ability to get a warrior in 3 turns, even if they have none in range.
We can move up next turn and possibly force them to spend a turn on a warrior when they'd rather build a settler.
I don't even feel like messaging to demand a turn order. Seeing as it will certainly fail, I don't want to make this look aggressive. But play first if possible. Moving NW next turn is just natural curiosity, right ?

The plan for the next turns isn't so complicated so I just left messages in game. 
What could be discussed yet is Mining over Pottery after Agri (or switch right now). We could build a mine for the 2nd city insteadof the FP cottage. The question is, do we really do all that much with pottery, considering that granaries are useless? We build 3-4 cottages before BW, including an awesome one on the FP before t40, and that's great especially for the corn city, but don't we really need hammers and the option of emergency whips more?

[Ginger()]

Ignore the capital and pop the scout
Yes moving NW is natural curiousity , but I expect the scout to move under us to bounce us for possible wardec. Out of curiosity, is Amica's scout healing there fortified or just stopped scouting and is sentrying?
3-4 cottages seems like a lot to give up, and I'm reasonably happy with chariot defense ....soooo I'd say go with whatever gives the better snowball. Not like one of our neighbors would try early pressure with their double early traits after we buzzed their capital with a warrior, right?