[SPOILERS] Iskender and the Sidar

[Selrahc]

The idea is that I'm pretending I'm interested in Gibbon because if I waned him I could switch out of Esus and still keep Shade Gibbon able to cast his tier III spells (true!).

Oh, that's very interesting.

So the Sidar effectively have 4 bonus archmage slots? That could be handy...

[Ranamar]

Oh, that's very interesting.

So the Sidar effectively have 4 bonus archmage slots? That could be handy...

Not only that, but shades have 2 moves and you can wane heroes, so you get four extra heroic archmage slots... although there aren't four heroic archmages, so... *shrug*

The one problem is, they don't gain experience anymore and they're obvious targets... but they certainly make handy utility archmages, since they retain their promotions.

Edit: okay, that was a little incoherent. I think I was distracted by the "shades can't fight" part from the fact that, if you did have a twincast archmage, I'm pretty sure you could still twincast with him afterwards.

[Thoth]

You can twincast with a waned Archmage.....up until the point where you get hit with someone else's assasin.

[Iskender]

I considered beelining Deception for Shade Gibbon, but as Ranamar says, after waning the unit can't take any new promotions. I would end up with an Archmage that can summon an Illusion Mistform, not a bad unit but not worth the beeline imo.


After sending the 'blackmail' message I had a chat with Bob. Highlights:

• He reveals an unhealthy interest in Ashen Veil. He actually wanted to forfeit Deception in exchange for me spreading AV to my cities. That's really unexpected. In my opinion, when playing Keelyn, anything else than getting Twincast Gibbon is a suboptimal play, to put it euphemistically. He might be interested in summoning Infernals and could be securing future sources of Manes.
  
• He still wants to be the first one to get Deception and believes he could manage it. Well, he's right - I used my tech advantage to research into the recon branch, but he doesn't know that and, I believe that, if pressed, the Balseraphs might rush straight to Deception possibly ignoring for a moment a critical tech such as Hunting.
  
• They conventionally researched Animal Husbandry as a first tech and got Calendar from a hut. Huh?
  

Bobchillingworth Who said I want Gibbon? :P

Iskender: I did
16:23
Bobchillingworth Cause' if it's "not a secret", seems implied that it's common

knowledge
16:24
Anyway. Yes, it's true. I'm headed for him now.
16:25
Iskender: so it seems we're having a race

Bobchillingworth I guess. We could maybe compare research times to see who gets there

first

probably not too hard to roughly extrapolate
16:26
If you're sure to beat me, then I'll just research other stuff. Not like I'm lacking for options.
16:27
We'd have to be pretty open with each other about what techs we already have tho, and our relative research

capabilities
16:28
(although maybe you already know all that from watching the demographics or something. I haven't bothered

trying to do any "C&D" :P )

Iskender: i know that you have Animal Husbandry, but that's just a little step towards

Trade
16:29
i'm pretty sure I'm much closer to Deception right now. otoh you have Revelry and a potential. really dunno who

would get there first

but i'm not fond of the race itself. i'd also research other critical techs not in a hurry for deception
16:32
Bobchillingworth Why do you want him? I think it's probably pretty obvious why he's a

nice catch for me summoner, pupper-wielding civ, but he's kind of a big diversion if you're just going to use a

couple Tier III spells and then wane him.
16:33
Iskender: after I wane him i can switch religion and he doesn't leave
16:34
he still can cast spells as a shade

Bobchillingworth oh, cool

didn't realize shades could fight...
16:35
Iskender: fight not really, his strength is 2 i think, but he still can cast
16:37
Bobchillingworth Perhaps one of us should then offer the other something for gaurenteed

rights to getting Deception first.
16:38
Iskender: unfortunately we don't even have a trade connection
16:39
and probably won't have for a long time

Bobchillingworth Well, we aren't that far away. I'm sure we will eventually

I don't have immediate need for a mana trade or something right now, anyway
16:40
there's also other forms of favors- I'd certainly appreciate it if you'd go for the Veil after deception and

spread it around, for example

Iskender: hm, that's doable
16:41
so you'd guarantee not to get deception first if i spread AV to my cities?
16:42
Bobchillingworth we'd need a timeframe- doesn't help me if you delay getting the veil

for a really long time and then only spread it to a couple towns.

Iskender: yes, that's understandable

Bobchillingworth would you be willing to go for the veil right after deception & spread

it to all of your towns?
16:43
I get the impression that you might stick with the Veil as a main faith anyway. It's always a nice option.

Iskender: i don't know if right after, there are some critical techs i would like to

get even before deception if i didn't have to rush for it
16:44
Bobchillingworth How soon do you think you could manage it, roughly speaking?
16:45
Iskender: i would rather not disclose that

Bobchillingworth Heh. "15-20 turns" doesn't really tell me much about what your

research capacity or tech plans are :P
16:46
Iskender: but it would tell you if you have a chance at getting Dec first
16:48
Bobchillingworth I think I could probably get there first regardless if I blew my

worldspell. If what you tell me indicates that I could be first, I'll still stick with our deal.

Iskender: don't get misled by the GNP shown in demographics. my culture output is

minimal
16:49
Bobchillingworth Well, yeah.
16:52
I don't think that it's unreasonable for me to ask for a reasonably accurate estimate of when I could expect

you to start spreading the Veil, though
16:54
Iskender: i don't really know at the moment. i'd like to get stuff like sanitation

first. but it seems you're interested rather in leaving me deception instead of securing it for yourself
16:55
Bobchillingworth Sure, if I can get a consolation prize.
16:56
I'm fine with you picking up a couple reasonably cheap econ techs after Deception, if you maintain a beeline

right for it. Less fine with you screwing around with poisons or other religions or other expensive

non-essentials first.
16:57
Iskender: frankly, now it sounds more like you were not really interested in Dec but

want to get something out of it anyway

Bobchillingworth Nah, I still want deception, and I'm still going to continue

researching straight for it if we don't agree to something
16:58
the techs along the way are useful enough to me even if I miss out.

So if I'm going to take myself out of the running and gaurantee that you'll get the faith, then I want

something in return.
17:00
You spreading the veil after deception seems like a win-win for both of us. I get some more freedom in my tech

path and eventually some more holy city beakers. You are assured of obtaining Gibbon and the Veil is a sweet

religion anyway.
17:02
Iskender: i'll think about it. i dont want to make any critical decisions on the chat.

it didn't serve me well in the past

i'll write you a msg

Bobchillingworth Sure, that's fine
17:03
Iskender: say hello to Dave! you guys are playing an impressive economy game so far
17:04
Bobchillingworth haha, thanks. I've also been pretty lucky :P

always nice when your two deadly neighbors go off and fight ill-concieved wars against other people
17:05
I'm sure you can agree

Iskender: i guess that AH was a hut or a graveyard

yeah

Bobchillingworth No... I researched AH as my first tech, but I got calendar on like

turn two or three

Iskender: wow
17:06
i noobily left my hut unexplored and then sareln's scout grabbed it
17:07
anyway, gotta go

Bobchillingworth ttyl

Iskender: cheers

I think I'll change the plan - instead of trying to bargain something in exchange for leaving Deception to the Balseraphs, i'll try to scare them into making a run for it. So I sent this:

[COLOR="Silver"]Hey Bob and Dave

I gave thought to your AV proposal and I must say I'm not interested. A recent acquisition from a dungeon directs long term Sidar spiritual development towards other religions.

Iskender[/COLOR]

I'm trying here to convey the message that:

• The religion I'll soon found is a result of a dungeon pop, not researching FoL, so
  
• I'm still in the race for Deception and you'd better hurry
  

The diplo with the Clan was also continued in the chat. Highlights:

• He confirmed having 'one or more' Sons of the Inferno
  
• I acknowledged that, not revealing that I've told Sareln about the SoI before proposing the Confidentiality Agreement to the Clan. Not that it's going to make much difference, Sareln should get a confirmation on SoI as soon as he casts Floating Eye, which should happen in a few turns.
  
• I suggested several times that the Clan might consider signing peace with the Amurites in exchange for exclusive rights to Amurite world spell, which could be triggered ie. when fighting Gibbon Goetia and his exponential summons. Still, the Clan seems to be bent on eliminating the Amurites sooner or later.
  
• The Clan has an NAP with the Balseraphs until T110.
  
• We expressed interest in a joint attack against the Balseraphs somewhere around T115-120.
  

Iskender: hey

i'm here

Tredje: Hi!
13:27
Before we begin, where are you from?

Curious.

Iskender: i'm from poland
13:28
Tredje: I see. Is that GMT+1 or +2?

Iskender: gmt+1

13:28 here atm

Tredje: Same as me then.

Do you play your turns early morning?
13:29
Iskender: yes. i'm kind of early bird. in the evening after 22 i'm usually gone

Tredje: I see. I'm kind of an early bird myself. No gaming after 23 =)
13:30
Anyway, I figured we should have a small chat regarding the future.

Anything we say will be kept between us, as per the CA, right?

Iskender: yes

that's why i spilled the beans about priests of leaves
13:31
Tredje: Good. Well, what I tell you, you would probably find out in a few turns or so

anyway.

The Clan has gotten access to one or more Sons of the Inferno

Iskender: i'll have a hawk in 3-4 turns
13:32
hm

with For the Horde i guess

Tredje: Right

Iskender: wow

Tredje: And he (or they) will be going against the Amurites.

Very soon.
13:33
Iskender: so that's the reason for going on with the choke

Tredje: Yeah, we had to get Sailing to transport the Sons, and with our economy it took

a while.
13:34
Iskender: yeah. this i see in the graphs

Tredje: Unit maintenance has been hurting us pretty bad

But hopefully it will be worth it, now that we have access to the Sons
13:35
This is also why I haven't been interested in you brokering a peace deal with the Amurites

Iskender: do you think sareln is a good target for SoI - he can use his world spell

Tredje: I am not sure if he has adepts yet (he needs adepts to cast his world spell)

And if he does we can just wait for 14 turns and then attack.
13:36
Iskender: he's going to have one very soon

Tredje: Yes, he expect that he bulbed KotR with a GS

*I assume
13:37
Iskender: you might consider an extortion scenario - forcing saren to surrender on your

terms, ie. leaving it up to you when he would trigger arcane lacuna and use the sons for someone else

Tredje: That is a possibility. Then we would be able to send our Sons somewhere else,

perhaps to the southeast?
13:38
Iskender: indeed southeast is what i had in mind

Tredje: Haha, I figured as much.

Iskender: then Arcane Lacuna could neutralize gibbon

bals are far from discovering deception but i had a chat with bob and he seems to be interested in beelining it
13:39
but he also displays an odd interest in AV
13:40
Tredje: I was thinking he probably wanted Ritualists for defense.
13:41
Iskender: he might be interested in summoning hybo

Tredje: Could be. He has done so before
13:42
But he has a commanding lead, not sure what he would try to accomplish with it.

Iskender: btw, do you have any idea where serdoa's zombies could be atm? i kind of lost

track of them

Tredje: I don't know. It would perhaps be wise to keep an eye out.
13:43
But do you think he would march them halfway across the world to attack you or us?

Not sure what he would stand to gain by that.

Iskender: no, not really. i'm just paranoid

Tredje: Hehe

You never know with Serdoa I guess.
13:44
Iskender: exactly

Tredje: He lost quite a few of them, so I'm not sure how many he has left.

Iskender: i think five or six, but most likely heavily promoted
13:45
Tredje: Enough to be concerned I would say
13:47
Iskender: so, going back to the amurites. with your SoI they are pretty much doomed,

but maybe there
13:48
there's more to gain by making a deal with them. i'm not sure, it's up to you i can mediate if that'd be needed
13:49
Tredje: That is the question. I think that it would be in the Clans and Sidars interest

that Bob had an unpleasant surprise. And with his GNP, that suurprise should come as early as possible
13:51
Iskender: my plans depend on in which city FoL spawns, that is how soon i can build a

temple and start building priests

i'm bulbing priesthood

Tredje: How soon until you get FoL?

Iskender: 4 turns
13:52
then just philosophy

Tredje: When do you think you could have a decent PoL army?

Iskender: that depends where FoL is founded. about T115 at least
13:53
Tredje: That sounds good. We have a NAP with Bob until T110.
13:54
Iskender: by then i should have HBR for mobility on priests

Tredje: And you could use our roads to get in position faster.
13:55
Iskender: i'll get Carto around T100, should help us with eco as well

and also i coud do some hawk scouting on bob

Tredje: Yes, we would be happy to sign an OB agreement for foreign trade routes

That would be very informative.
13:56
I think that if we want to strike at Bob, we want to do it as early as possible, when we are at our strongest.

Iskender: yes, i'm hoping i could strike before he gets hunting
13:57
Tredje: I guess that is somewhat luck-dependent, whether he decides to tech it or not.
13:58
Iskender: unfortunately, there's ivory close to his capital, but he might ignore it,

beelining for deception. i kinda scared him into beelining it (kind of)

Tredje: Beelining what? Deception or Hunting?

Iskender: deception. i said i'm also interested in getting gibbon
13:59
Tredje: Haha

If he disregards Hunting based on that, well done

Iskender: with his current GNP it would take him 6-8 turns to get hunting

and a couple more to built a lodge and train a hawk
14:00
Tredje: Yeah. I guess it will be a race against time to get there in time.

Iskender: so we have a marigin if he ignores hunting in the near future

Tredje: We do, and I think we should seize it and prepare for it.
14:01
Our combined forces should be difficult to withstand.

Iskender: if you could get SoI there and force sareln not to help Bob with blocking

fire elementals by arcane lacuna
14:02
well, in that case i guess my priest wouldn't make a difference :O

*priests
14:03
Tredje: Haha
14:04
If we can agree to strike at Bob, I think the most immediate concern is how to deal with Sareln.
14:05
Iskender: he's definitely out of luck in pbems. first Priests of Winter, now Sons of

Inferno

Tredje: I know, I feel really bad about the whole thing.
14:06
Maybe next time he will chose a rushing civ, just to pay someone back, hehe
14:07
Let us consider the possible outcomes:

1: We attack Sareln soon. He blows AL. We have to wait 14 turns before marching against him. We probably

wouldn't be ready to attack Bob before T130 or so.
14:08
2: We negotiate some kind of deal, which includes him not firing AL. We will be ready to hit Bob as soon as you

have sufficient Priests.
14:10
Iskender: i'm all for 2. i don't want to attack sareln, our relations have been

friendly so far. and it seems that with SoI if you choose 1 you could defeat him without any aid

if SoI are combat promoted i guess you wouldn't even need summons
14:11
Tredje: Not necessarily no, but with enough Warriors most things will go down. And SoI

are irreplaceable.
14:12
Iskender: yeah. i lost a shade candidate at 96.8% (+0.3% withdraw)
14:13
Tredje: Ouch.

That must have been infuriating.
14:14
Iskender: yeah, but then again it's only 1/33, even more likely than 1/37 in roulette,

heh

i mean the chance to lose wasn't that slim after all

so it goes
14:15
Tredje: That's true. It seems almost impossible, but it will happen occasionally
14:17
I have to go soon. Let's try to summarize: We both agree that a strike on Bob would be in our interest?

Iskender: yes
14:18
Tredje: And that it should come as early as possible

Iskender: yes, as early as possible with a fair chance of success

Tredje: Ok

And you think you will be ready at about T115-T120?
14:19
Iskender: i count 2 tigers for every priest - one summoned at home and made invisible,

another summoned when 'coming out'

i should be. i'll update you on my progress with the priests
14:21
Tredje: Excellent. I will try to keep you informed about our dealings with the

Amurites. As it stands right now we don't really want peace, but that might change.

If he blows AL and we have to wait, we might noe be able to hit Bob until T130 or so.
14:22
Iskender: i guess

btw. if you'll be interested in FoL let me know
14:23
Tredje: I will. And once you get Cartography we will accept OB.
14:24
Iskender: that's right. so, i'll keep working on getting priests and seeing how you

decide to resolve the situation with the amurites
14:26
Tredje: I think that is what we can say with certainty right now. A lot depends on how

Sareln reacts to seeing our SoI. And it doesn't really change our plans, it only affects the timing.

Iskender: ok
14:28
so, please pass my greetings to the Goblin

cheers
14:30
Tredje: I will, and I'm sure he greets you back. I'll see you around.

[Iskender]

Bob sent me this:

Sure. Unless you have a counter proposal of some sort, I guess it's a race then! Best of luck to you & Mr. Yellow! :D

In the same turn the Balseraphs converted to Ashen Veil.

They either want to beeline Deception and get Gibbon or not. If it's the former, our joint attack with the Clan has a chance to find the Bals helpless in the middle of the beeline, although if they discover trade (in about 15 turns w/o Revelry) and Dave sees I have Priesthood they will immediately realize something is very wrong with this picture.

If they want to put off getting Gibbon in favour of AV: I can't imagine any mid-game strategy involving AV that would be nearly as strong as Gibbon + puppets + summoner trait.


Sareln acknowledged my NAP with the Clan. His demands for peace are somewhat unreasonable for someone facing SoI, but it's perfectly understandable that he's not interested in repeating his PBEM1 experience. I should probably stop trying to save the Amurites now and let the Clan do their thing.

[COLOR="Magenta"]Iskender,

Alright. Thanks for giving me a head's up, and thank you for making
sure that you could still honor our deals. My copper is hooked up and
my warriors are equipped, so we can do the mana for copper trade at
any point after we get a trade route up.

As far as brokering peace between the Amurite and Clan, thank you for
offering your services. I will give serious consideration to any deal
that allows me to expand out to a total of 5 real city sites, with at
least one of them coastal. From my perspective, to do otherwise would
basically be signing away any relevance in this game. I don't know if
that's even possible given Clan/Amurite placement. I'll know better
soon enough.[/COLOR]

Pic semi-related:

[Mr. Yellow]

I doubt you can do much more regarding Sareln, have to see what Tredje decides to do. Sounds like like it’s best to slipstream behind the clan for now while they control the momentum.

Also, curious when you'll go for Poisons.

[Iskender]

I think I'll grab a few useful and cheap techs before I go for Poisons. Cartography to get Open Borders with the Clan for foreign trade routes and to use Clan to scout out the Balseraphs. Animal Husbandry for Subdue Animal - there's a Bear, a Lion and a Spider in the area. Also, the BW -> Warfare -> Military Strategy path offers too many goodies to ignore it: the Epics, Titan and the free Great Commander for roughly 70% beaker cost of Poisons. There's also Knowledge of the Ether if I manage to get a Body Mana loan from the Amurites or the Clan.

In other words: I have no idea what to research after Priesthood and in what order (oh, and there's also Sanitation)


Turns 88 and 89 were boring, but EOT 89 a few things happened:

Oop Be Gone completed Archery Range. This is a historical moment - for the first time a Sandalphon's trait has been used, shaving 33 hammers off the Archery Range! :applause:

Deep Thought trained the best FFH unit, that is, obviously, a Hawk. Let's spend a moment to contemplate it in its unbalanced awesomeness:





Now where to send the bugger? I could scout west of Same Here to see if there are any signs of SoI, but the city is a tad to far away from the coast for the hawk to reveal anything meaningful:



I'll probably take a peek at the choke in the south or scan Clan's northern cities or maybe how's Square Leg is doing after the war, although hawk's range from Oop Be Gone is 2 tiles short to reveal Luchuirp capital.


Also EOT 89:




Out of the three non-capital cities RNG couldn't have chosen worse. Nowhere, as you can see, is busy completing a settler. Unlike the other two cities it can't immediately start working on a Temple of Leaves (prereq. for Priests) in consequence decelerating the priests momentum a bit. Also unlike Same Here and Oop Be Gone , Nowhere already had all culture it needed, if FoL had been founded in Same Here I could've had two Furs within my culture around turn 100 and Marble + Sheep next turn.

On the positive side - Nowhere's culture should make a dent in Clan's territory. In a game with no Raiders this might prove useful. I had given the Clan a warning that FoL might be founded near their borders. I confirmed it in a message:

[COLOR="Silver"]Hey

Unfortunately FoL has been founded in the southern city. Its borders will expand next turn and then again in some 20 turns. Good news is that a monument should be enough to stop my culture from grabbing more than one tile of your BFC.

Iskender[/COLOR]

I am a nice guy after all.

[Iskender]

Sent the Hawk south to see the choke. Jackpot:



Crowley the SoI has with Fire III, Chanelling III, Loyalty, (starting promotions) Combat V, Body I and Spell Extension. He can summon a 3-move Str 10 Empower V Fire Elemental with 30% collateral damage.

And Crowley can't touch me because the Clan and the Sidar have a worldspell NAP until forever :neenernee


Sareln is kaput though. So it goes.



EOT Fellowship spread to the capital - more momentum for Priests

[Mr. Yellow]

You eventually gonna ask the clan to lend fire elementals for XP?

[Iskender]

Turn 91:

This time I sent the Hawk east to check out Luchuirp east borders (OK, TBH I wanted to make sure there are no Pyre Zombies in the area, heading in my direction). To my relief the scan revealed nothing interesting, just a barbarian city that a giant spider apparently confused for a breeding partner.



The Carnival that Oop Be Gone's is working on is a queue filler until I spread FoL there and switch production for Temple of Leaves. I've chosen Carnival over Elder Council because Carnival will eventually give 2 happy with Tiger Cage. In fact I'm skipping Elder Councils altogether - with Markets in most cities ECs are useless in 0% phases of binary research. With the slider set to 0% I'm now losing 4 beakers, which I'm dumping into RoK (so the Sidar are straying even farther from the way of the earthmother).


Sareln spotted Crowley:

Sareln: He's got that Son of the Inferno on me right now. What idiot thought a base strength 8 archmagi was a good idea? :P

worldspell will probably fire in the next turn.

Turn 92:

Sareln indeed used the Arcane Lacuna. Looks like he'll be fighting to the bitter end.


Once again I swept over the south with the hawk :



Another SoI has landed, this one lacks Combat IV and V compared to Crowley, which in the rigorous SoI hierarchy makes him not worthy of bearing a name. At least Tredje was kind enough not to name the SoI Riuros, Dumannios and Anagatios

I used the free Disciple to spread FoL in Oop Be Gone. The consequent 6k power drop will be enough of a clue for everybody following the power graph that I've discovered FoL and not gotten it from a dungeon. Dave has got the power table at hand so he'll most likely figure it out once Bob posts the power graph screenshot.

Speaking of the Balseraphs, I'm not up to date with C&D but at least I've found out that last turn (91) they discovered Bronze Working. This does not look like your average Deception beeline. They might either:

• Pursue Warfare and maybe Military Strategy to grab the Form of the Titan and the Great Commander. If they want the Titan I can't compete, with my most experienced unit having only 9XP and them most likely having a 6 level unit already (the guy who defeated Orthus). At least I will be able to use the known-tech bonus to see if the Balseraphs discovered Warfare. If I hadn't known its arrow prerequisite (Education) I would have needed a raw beaker output of at least 100 to observe a difference made by a 1% increase. With a 21% bonus from known-tech + prerequisite 24 raw beakers is enough.
  
• The Balseraphs might just be afraid of Pyre Zombies, now that the Sheaim has signed a peace with the Dwarves. I do hope this is the case. Then I would still have a chance to get the Titan and the GC and the Bals would be forced to turtle up a bit.
  

Alan, the ninja-dwarf Luchuirp emissary rolled in once again:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]He was back...

As subtle as being downwind from a pig farm the Dwarf rolled across the path from tree to tree. Alan stopped only to eat berries from the bushes or to scratch his bottom, he made his way in the general direction of the Sidar borders. As he approached he noticed something different... The trees were taller than before, the berries were tastier, the woodland animals happier... He quickly lost interest in performing thin air punches commando rolls and wandered awe stuck down the centre of the path, looking all around at the beauty that surrounded him. Like a child in a chocolate factory he felt an uncontrollable warm feeling envelope him. He had been told by Garrim Gyr that the rumour was the Sidar had been worshipping a new god. A god of nature, a god who could make the trees talk, a god who could provide riches from the forests and then, to his astonishment it happened.....


"Your standing on my foot." A deep voice said.

The Dwarf looked around nervously - his face now a deep purple from all the berries he had been eating.

"Who said that?" he squeaked

"I did" came the voice. Turning around Alan fell to the floor aghast for before him a great tree was starring at him with a disconcerting frown.

"I.... I... I'm very sorry sir" and with that he gathered himself and ran as fast as his little legs would take him back in the direction from which he came.



Hey Iskender - congratulations of founding Fellowship of the Leaves![/COLOR]

Then we had a chat:

Iskender: hey. thanks for your message
18:08
Square Leg: np - I felt like being silly again after days of slogging through PZ's!

Iskender: heh

i've seen serdoa named his new city 'PZ noob' or something similar
18:09
Square Leg: nah - I named it that for him

part of our "peace" deal

I can say now!

Iskender: ah

Square Leg: since it is obvious
18:10
So the clan have started hurling fire elementals at the amurites

Iskender: about the clan:

i have signed a nap and a confidentiality agreement with them
18:11
can't say any more about SoI than I did the last time
18:12
Square Leg: ok - Tedje has been quite coy really - staggered his naps with everyone it seems - I'd guess yours is to about... I dunno T180

(I'm fishing feel free to ignore me! )

Iskender: i guess i can say this much: i've tried to maintain friendly relations with both the clan and the amurites and tried to broker peace between them but apparently it didn't work
18:13
it's until T130

Square Leg: That fits with the staggering
18:14
looks like they plan on walking the sons around the world

Not sure really what can be done about them though.
18:15
The Lurchuirp don't have any weapons that can match them for a long while...

Serdoa could spam PZ's that might be moderately effective

Iskender: is your nap with serdoa very long. i'm still wondering if i could use Into the Mist on him and make a joint strike with you

Square Leg: Bals could spam summons with Gibbion or Hemah
18:16
Our nap is for quite a while yeah

certainly long enough so that the Clan will have destroyed me before it expires
18:18
Iskender: speaking in general: SoI are like buffed priests of winter. awesome but irreplacable. serlahc didn't find much use for the priests in the mid to late game
18:19
Square Leg: yeah but the POW only summon Ice elementals and he napped himself up.
18:20
If he had moved on to Cull after Sareln rather than run half way around the world with them chasing Sareln I think it would have been different
18:21
Iskender: true. probably even if he moved on Bob instead of Cull, but after that the priests just idled until the end of the game
18:22
Square Leg: Or even PB - That would have saved everyone a whole world of pain! lol

Iskender: indeed!
18:23
Square Leg: At the end of your nap with the clan - would you consider trying to do something about the Clan?
18:24
Iskender: i guess i would, but can't discuss it right now i think

Square Leg: I also have a nap with them - not the same duration as you but I would be willing to do something to try and stop them from winning this

Ok - that is fair enough.
18:25
We have a few turns to go but I will say this - be wary of them when they finish off Sareln.

Iskender: i will
18:26
do you think we could get a road between us? i'm going to research Cartography arount T100. we could get OB

Square Leg: Sure - I am going to be founding a city in your direction on or around T98 - T99
18:27
It will be 2E 1N of the remnants
18:28
I will obviously be roading out that way
18:29
If you road the deer and the tile to the West of it I will do the rest
18:30
Iskender: ok, i'll road it soon
18:31
i'm afraid though i don't have forces to attack the barbarian city

Square Leg: ok - np - I will likely throw warriorpults at it and use barny to clean up for some xp farm

Iskender: i'll have some maybe in 15 turns. if you can't wait that long feel free to train barnaxus on its garrison
18:32
btw. if you haven't found a trading partner for your cotton i think i'll have extra silk at the time we get trade connection
18:33
oops

Square Leg: I don't have cotton

Iskender: i mean the other way

Square Leg: ah - ok

sure - that sounds beneficial!

Iskender: (i know you have silk from that unique features screenshot you sent me)
18:34
i've been trying to reproduce it but no success

Square Leg: lol

no idea what happened

Iskender:

i've found some nice tricks to do with the camera though. you can see the world wrap with your own eyes
18:35
Square Leg: ha ha

I have to go now - time for me to go home from work
18:36
Iskender: cheers

Square Leg: cya

Summary:

• Peace agreement between the Sheaim and the Luchuirp involved Square Leg founding and gifting a city to Serdoa. (Serdoa has founded 3rd city recently and now has a total of 4 cities)
  
• They have also signed a long NAP, I guess at least until T130
  
• I told Square Leg about my NAP with the Clan
  
• The Luchuirp also have a NAP with the Clan but it expires sooner than T130
  
• Adressing SL's concerns about the SoI I made an analogy between them and Selrahc's Priests of Winter in PBEM1. My point was that the Priests have, to all intents and purposes, retired after the initial carnage and that it might be true for SoI as well. The connection between the cases would be the owner's reluctance to risk the irreplaceable unit in combat. After giving it some thought I don't think the analogy holds though. The SoI are mobile - they have haste, while the Priests had been one-movers for a long time (and on a large map, with greater distances between civs), Tredje, in case of emergency, can recall the SoI in a matter of a few turns. Thus, the SoI might dominate the mid-game as well and I'm gonna give myself a [STRIKE]cookie[/STRIKE] beer for securing the worldspell NAP.
  
• We've agreed to make a trade connection via road and open borders as soon as I discover Cartography. We might also do a Silk<->Cotton exchange that I initially planned to do with Sareln.
  
• Apparently I's too late for me to attack the barb city on the Luchuirp side of the lake for experience points. Square Leg will deal with it with warriors and catapults.
  

You eventually gonna ask the clan to lend fire elementals for XP?

It's doable - if they positioned the elemental on a desert I could redline it with Tigers and finish off for XP. The thing is that the SoI are going to be busy at least until T130, first with the Amurites, then with the Balseraphs. After that I might have a chance to use fire elementals for XP without a lending agreement