WW26: The Masquerade [Game Thread]

[Fat Rose]

Another thing to check up on is day 1, both with regards to how people interacted with the many known innocents, but in particular the events following Easy Sarah's terrible "handwaving" post. I did look at that latter episode earlier, without really concluding much, but now that the field is narrowed I'm a little suspicious of Fat Rose. She likes to pick apart any and all weak arguments that are presented, but completely ignored Easy Sarah after that post. (And she did post about an hour after it.)Compare this to the way she picked apart Agnes' post in her own very first post, also voting for me after a very elaborate argument, and it's a conspicuous difference.

Imo you misrepresent me here Jon. My starting post had one short two-line paragraph devoted to Agnes' post. And I obviously was not focussed on anything else. I was still requesting answers from you when Sarah posted. And also I honestly did not even after the discussion was started on it get what was so bad about the hand-waving. I read that as "I'm not ok with calling LE a confirmed villager just yet" and looking through the thread she was not the only one despite the meta-argument for his innocence. Even days later players claimed that they did not accept that meta-argument for clearing him.

She's not hugely scummy, but someone has to be scum, and I think she currently makes my top 4 list. The other three on that list are Short Richard, Hard-Nose Harry, and Sir Percival. The latter two made some good posts today, but it appears they were targeting the wrong players, so we can't give them too much credit for that.

I obviously don't agree with my name on that list but I agree with those 3 names and would add Saul. Especially Saul has changed completely. While I had to reread D1 (yes, I have not remembered exactly from the top of my head what was written by Sarah) I also reread his posts of course, and they are like from another person. This started with his claim and I get the feel that we have a wolf here that changed his posting style in order to make it harder for us to find slips or inconsistencies.

Rob I'm not sure what to think about, I still don't like his postings. Claiming he assumed that Muriel is a villager but still voted to lynch her because of her play is odd. Stating he'll not try very had to find wolves is just unfair to us imo. But unfair doesn't necessarily mean wolf.

But for today obviously

Short Richard

If he is indeed a villager that lurked till now then we didn't have a chance to win ever anyhow, as we had already too many villagers that either didn't play or played in a way that provided perfect cover for wolves.

[Widow Edith]

Why didn't you list Rob in this post, Widow Edith? (Last-minute post on night 3.)

I had my discussion with Rob the night before where he got suddenly all drama-queen and told us he asked for a replacement.
I have reread our discussion and I still find nothing in it that makes clear why he exploded that way. the same with his answer to Fat Rose before.

So I saw 2 possibilities a) It was faked which is a very cheesy tactic no matter his alignment or
b) It was real but if Rob is so ill that he gets hysterics as soon he gets questioned then he should not play WW at all. In fact for healthreasons he should have been removed .

At the beginning of D3 I was told by several that they believe robs action to be genuine. And simply put if it was real then I don't want to touch him with a ten-foot-pole. If he is so unstable then I have little interest to play with him a WW-game or to include him in any list that might imply he is a wolf. So I excluded him from my listings and decided to watch how he behaves further.

[Widow Edith]

I'm bringing him up now again as we can't afford to exclude someone basically on a meta-argument especially if he is acting scummy in his other actions and the reason he got meta-cleared could well be fake.

yesterday:

We do have options. I think though that out of everyone my lynch choice is clear.

implying Muriel

Saul You are either a fool with a random alignment scan or an insane seer getting exact opposite results... Or you are a wolf.


I would vote Muriel but I hate short Richards most recent vote on Muriel. He says he doesn't understand the argument with sister Mary so that's his reason for voting for her. That was how long ago? And what about her most recent thoughts? It's too lazy and my scum dar is going crazy on him. short Richard

Additionally Saul's posts have been progressively scummier...

to richard

Get it straight. I only got angry because of Muriel. What is happening now is the same thing that happened earlier. Muriel is purposefully trying to get under everyone's skin and obscure the truth. She did it before, she's doing it now.

I've had enough Muriel.

and now we are back to Muriel. Note how explains that he only got angry because of her. Nice way to explain why suddenly he is playing again. And his anger about Muriel is of course enough reason to get emotional when I talked with him. Or his explosion just because Fat Rose didn't agree with him.


And today:

I was hoping I'd be dead. But oh well.

After this post yesterday:

BRick being mean enough to make a friendly neighbor be a wolf feels farfetched enough to be ruled out. My first impression was that Saul was obviously a wolf and that I couldn't believe Saul got someone mislynched and got away with it. I've have been getting village reads on him, and have been warming up to the Fool idea...

Definitely getting an uneasy feeling from Muriel's posts. I still can't wrap my head around her argument with Sister Mary.

I was pretty sure Short Richard was a wolf and Muriel was a villager. But in the end Muriel had to be lynched because her play did not deserve to be rewarded. I also believe that the village has a better chance of winning with her dead. Not that I intend to try very hard.

This is all kind of bad. Muriel was a villager so if we win she will win too. If Rob doesn't want Muriel to win he doesn't want the village to win.

[Know-Nothing Jon]

Thanks for the explanation, Widow Edith. I thought at the time that perhaps you left him out because you were trying to vig kill him, which then failed for some reason.

I guess it's possible Saul was blocked by a town roleblocker. Though again, we also had a jailer. The reason I asked for your claim, HNH, was because I want more information.

Fat Rose, perhaps you are right about Saul. There are after all several unanswered questions about him. But why do you think he'd claim "no result" on HNH? And in general, how does his play make sense as scum?

[Fat Rose]

Jon, I got suspicious because of how insistent he was that his result was messed with. I posted earlier about how he tried to shove that onto us pretty much from the moment his result on Kate was shown to be wrong. I don't think he ever considered honestly if he could be a fool or a seer with opposite results, he always seemed certain that someone messed his results up. That seems odd to me, as seer whom results are wrong I would try to find out the reasons for it. Basically I'd expect him to invest the most time of all of us to get to the bottom of this, but he does not. He has a theory right at the start and he sticks to it. And changes his posting style radically while at it.

So that's what made me suspicious. Now you ask how his play makes sense as a wolf. In general, I look at him and am not certain how his play makes sense for a wolf, but I see that it makes no sense for a villager. So even though I understand why you ask, I think in this case it makes more sense to turn the question around. Without knowing which roles the wolves have and with the added anonymity I am not sure we will always be able explain why someone should do something as a wolf (apart from the issue of the wolves doing something we don't think makes sense for them, just to throw us off their track...).

Now, looking at his play there is quite a bit making no sense (some I wrote above already):

N2: Claiming that Muriel is innocent. Why in the night? The wolves could not believe that he is a fool as he was right on her and he had to believe he is right as well of course. That was pretty much asking to get killed by the wolves right there. I won't go into theories why they didn't, because if he is not a wolf, he could not expect that they have a redirector (especially as he asked if there is a role that can mess up results, so by his own words didn't even know it exists). And the reason he did that was to save Muriel from getting shot by a Vigilante? Whom we didn't even know if we had one and even if that he would shoot?

And even if I buy that, am I to believe that he gave away his role like that, was NOT killed by the wolves for it, is insisting his results got messed with and yet when I reread the last day he has only a few posts and half of them are stating that he thinks Muriel argues badly and that he does not understand her play.

His claim that he scanned Jon as wolf on N3 made perfect sense for him being a wolf. Because that gave credence to the theory that he is a seer with opposite results and though I don't want to blame Muriels lynch on him, it certainly helped it along I think. Why would he scan Jon of all people to begin with? And do we really believe that the wolves have guessed twice his scan-target? Even though this night now he was blocked? If they could block him, why not do that already the night he tried to scan Jon?

And his claim of no result on HNH would also make sense for a wolf. Claiming a result would mean it could simply be the wrong result of a fool and I think we would all have dismissed it. But claiming he was blocked means he IS a seer (if he was a fool the wolves would not need to block him) and the wolves decided to block him instead of redirect him.

Yes, I think that means that HNH and Saul probably can't be wolves together as his no result does put the spotlight on HNH. Will have to think about that, but later.

[Sir Percival]

dr saul

his play since night 2 has been very odd. make no sense as village.

having said that, tiny dick needs to contribute if he want to avoid lynch. i cant recall a single aspect of his play that make me think he might be village.

[Young Will]

I still think either Saul or Jon has to be a wolf. But I don't really know which :/ and I'm willing to table it.


I agree about wanting a role claim from Richard and Harry. I think I'll have to vote for one of them if I don't get it.

[Doctor Saul]

Rose, yes I have always said that fool was a bad explanation. I do not think GM would mess with us this way. It is just not fun to be where you do not know if you can trust the GM. I believe Will really is villager and the GM told me that last night, so why would I think that I am not seer?

As for my results I do not know why they are what they are. I thought maybe wolves had a redirector and then later thought taunter, but that does not explain the no result. I think the best explaining of the no result is Harry having something that would cause it.

Percy, if you lynch me the village will lose. I guarantee it. Maybe the village is lost already and we just don't know it yet

[Fat Rose]

Rose, yes I have always said that fool was a bad explanation. I do not think GM would mess with us this way. It is just not fun to be where you do not know if you can trust the GM. I believe Will really is villager and the GM told me that last night, so why would I think that I am not seer?

Because you asked that question already after Kate was lynched and got explained that fool does not know that he is a fool but is told seer because the role wouldn't work otherwise. At that point imo everyone would at least consider it. Especially taking into account your (faked?) inexperience. You acted as if you didn't even know what a fool is and later also asked for roles that could mess with your result, again in a way that underlined your inexperience. But still you were certain right after Kate was revealed villager that someone messed up your result and did never consider anything else.

I don't think it makes much sense to go in circles on that one though. You say that you didn't believe the GM would mess with you, I think you should have taken all possibilities into account. I guess we can leave it at that.

As for my results I do not know why they are what they are. I thought maybe wolves had a redirector and then later thought taunter, but that does not explain the no result. I think the best explaining of the no result is Harry having something that would cause it.

So you think that Harry lies? Why do you not vote for him in that case?

Percy, if you lynch me the village will lose. I guarantee it. Maybe the village is lost already and we just don't know it yet

Can you explain why the village will lose under guarantee if we lynch you?

[Doctor Saul]

So you think that Harry lies? Why do you not vote for him in that case?

I am voting for the person i think is most likely scum. Harry may also be true, but Richard did not post all day when I revealed and has been hiding a lot sense. He still has not answered the voters from yesterday and today is now half gone. I think he is very happy with how things go so i am more convinced of him than Harry. I said before i do not trust my scans and so i do not want to base my votes off them.

Can you explain why the village will lose under guarantee if we lynch you?

We are at LYLO right? I think that is clear if we are LYLO and we lynch a villager we lose. That seems clear. If we are not at LYLO that means we only have 4 scum at the start this game, that seems wrong.