Horselover Fat's journal - Iskender and the Hippus

[Iskender]

Just saw Bob's stack of 8 bloodpets across the river. Even with the two protecting workers it's still not enough to break Feiss Mabdon. However those 10 represent only 30k of his 100k total power, so there are many more coming.

I'll post a more elaborate update tomorrow.

[Iskender]

This is how it looks:



I have 5 warriors in Feiss and another 6 coming. If i garrisoned all of them in the city the stack would look like this:

- 2 combat II shock warriors (TheArchduke and Rowain)
- 1 warrior with two free promotions (Comillo the Adventurer)
- 1 combat I warrior
- 3 warriors with free promotion
- 4 warriors

The red numbers are my estimation of his main stack's movement. The yellow ones are roading.

With this amount of dedender Feiss would hold against 10 bloodpets, maybe even without warcry. However, I'm not going to defend the city. If Bob (or DaveV?) has any idea what he's doing he will just bypass the city separating my stack from the core cities. The tile I'm actually going to defend is the reagets/hills S of Radonnor. I'll have some 15 warriors there, which should be enough to hold even if Bob brings another 10 bloodpets. If he decides to take a walk around the peak or wait for the reinforcements I'll have just enough time to finish...

operation "Wilhelm Tell",

which is a pompous name for discovering Archery and building Archery Range in the capital. The plan involves heavy deforestation in order to be able to upgrade warriors to archers on turn 116.


Now the time for reflection:

What the heck are they doing? I understand that they fear my horsies just as much as I fear their vampires, but going to such lengths (taking detour via Bronze Working and sinking loads of gold into unit maintenance, in an NTT game!) just to have a stab at wiping me out, that's just beyond me. They do have a chance to accomplish this if they play it well (I'm most afraid that those free promotion bloodpets will get Mobility I before I'm able to garrison enough Archers), but so far their moves have been far from perfect - ie. their building of a road instead of moving the stack right away - it could've been attacking Feiss Mabdon this (Bob's) turn! So, what I believe will happen is that they will choke me while simultaneously choking themselves with unit maintenance and army supply and we'll both become marginalized as a result.


Well, at least the war should be interesting. I'm looking forward to whooping some underfed bloodpet ass!

[Iskender]

Had a conversation with Pocketbeetle. Great news for him, I guess. It's in his interest that Bob doesn't grow stronger so I asked for help.

ja: hi Pocketbeetle
pocketbeetle: Hey
ja: there is a war coming
pocketbeetle: I guessed something was happening - Bob's power is going for you?
ja: yes
pocketbeetle: I think you've got time - think he'll probably wait for Construction and catapults
ja: i see his stack and two 'combat engineers'
pocketbeetle: He's moved a stack up? How big?
ja: i'm spamming warriors for the last 5 turns
pocketbeetle: where?
ja: i see only 10 bloodpets with bronze
but i guess there are more in the fog
i'll definitely lose one city, but will try to hold on the other 3
pocketbeetle: So he definitely has BW then? But no Moroi?
ja: yeah
i bet i'll see some moroi soon as well
anyway
pocketbeetle: Weird. You can't hold your city? It's not your capital I hope
ja: i was wondering if you were able to assist me in any way
i can hold a city with my forces, but he's raiders and can bypass it with ease and threaten the core cities
pocketbeetle: I definitely want to help you Iskender, but you can see from the power graphs that I'm weak militarily
I might be able to get a giant down there
He could stand in your capital and hlep protect that if you want
ja: can you C&D if he's close to Horseback Riding?
without mobility troops he'll most likely just choke me
and himself as well with unit supply
pocketbeetle: I gave you a tech dump not long ago, since then I he's difficult to follow, but I thought he picked up Masonry.
I haven't seen him pick up any 22 point techs like HBR recently, so I think you're okay for the moment
ja: me neither. are you following how close he is to researching another tech, such as HR?
pocketbeetle: I can't do that anymore, it's too hard.
ja: all right
pocketbeetle: I think his last tech was literally 1-2 turns ago though, so maybe that helps
Where is he attacking, your North/ East or South?
ja: his west my east
pocketbeetle: Has he declared war/ talked at all?
ja: nope. building a road. quite a giveaway...
well
pocketbeetle: I see, and are your defences split? is that why you're abandoning acity? Or can he go around it or something?
ja: he can go around it
i'd rather sacrifice this city than put the rest in danger
it's the fourth one, not really a devastating blow
pocketbeetle: Are you close to any military techs? Anything good ont he horizon?
ja: i'll have archery soon
will you have currency in the near future?
pocketbeetle: Okay, well that's good news. So what are you going to do, abandon the fourth city and defend which city?
No, not close yet
ja: defend the one he's after
he can't fork. NO FORK
well. in the long term, he just set us both back a lot
before this i had hopes that i would catch up
i'll have to 'redefine my agenda'
pocketbeetle:
ja: worry not
pocketbeetle: Yeah. Well whatever you do, don't vassalise to him or something crazy
ja: if i come out of this you'll have a good ally on the south
pocketbeetle: Im' going to definitely get one Giant down there, will try and get a second
ja: one more idea
pocketbeetle: So don't worry if you see a Hidden Nat Giant in your borders
hit me
ja: i could try to discover sailing, plant a coastal city
do you have copper?
pocketbeetle: I don't sorry
That would have beena great idea
No copper near me, I'll have to use a settlement to get some
ja: what would be ETA for giant?
pocketbeetle: First giant, sec
Is close, I reckon 4 turns to reach your North border? Second is a bit further behind
Problem is, I'd probably have to declare war and stack the Giant with your men, otherwise easily overwhelmed
ja: cool, i could extend a road in that direction
pocketbeetle: I wouldn't worry for the time being, Hidden Nationality can't use roads, you're better off keep improving your land
ja: you mean chopping everything in sight?
pocketbeetle: exactly
ja: all right. i'll try to keep you updated
pocketbeetle: Thankyou for doing so
Oh just a heads up - I currently have OB with Bob btw. Ignore it - he made me sign it by threatening to pop a dungeon in my borders
He wanted to get a Scout through my land, it was either risk having something horrible spawn not far from my cap, or allow him too. Im not happy about it
ja: no problem
pocketbeetle: If you think of any other way I can help, let me know.
ja: sure

[Iskender]

Got a message from Dave:

Hi,

It's DaveV, the new turnplayer for the Calabim.

BobChillingworth and I have been worried about your civ as the biggest threat to us, and welcomed the email/chat where you expressed interst in peace. The next turn, though, you explored a lair after Bob explicitly said he'd take that as an act of war.

We were forced to conclude that you were planning on war with us, and decided to attack your civ before you had stacks of horse archers that could swoop in from the fog and kill our cities. As Bob told you, it would be better for both our civs to continue expansion and not have to pay support for large armies, but we have to defend ourselves.

I have declared war in-game, but also offered "white" peace, with no conditions. The "out of game" contitions attached to that peace are as follows:

1) Non aggression pact until turn 200. The Calabim will immediately withdraw their units, and neither side will declare war on the other for the specifed time.
2) The Hippus will not settle to the east of their two easternmost cities; the Calabim will not settle to the west of their westernmost city.
3) Neither side will explore any lair that is within 3 tiles of the other's borders.

I would be happy to go back to expansion mode, and would gladly have a long-term peace. I would also be happy to prosecute a war to the best of my abilities, if that's what it takes to protect my civ.

Please don't take this war declaration personally. I have nothing in particular against you or your civ, but am acting in what I believe to be the best interests of my civ.

DaveV

At first I was like:

NICE TRY ZARFLAX



The offer sounds reasonable, but:

1. Calabim military buildup had started at least 10 turns before the lair incident, and they researched BW, a tech definitely not in their beeline path.

2. Dave positioned the bloodpets in such a way that all of them were able to attack Feiss Mabdon this turn (see the picture below). I hate Raiders trait

3. The peace offer was proposed but not accepted by the Calabim side. I would've had to take a leap of faith and accept it unilaterally hoping that they would complete the deal in their turn.

At this point I had 7 warriors in Feiss. If I had left it at that, a strike by 10 bloodpets could've decimated my defending stack (shock II bloodpet had about 75% odds on the city and shock II ones about 35%). With bad luck the city could've fallen along with my top defenders. Even if the peace offer was genuine, the opportunity could've been to great for DaveBob to ignore it.

So I cast Warcry.

That allowed me to move additional 4 warriors to Feiss and cut the shocker II's odds to 35%. Then I was ready to accept the deal. It is a pity to waste the world spell in such fashion, but it's a consequence of my falling for the "barbarian city in the west" trick.

Then I sent a message to Dave and Bob. I accepted the offer, but to test if it is genuine I demanded destroying the road leading to my city.


Here's the message and the conversation that followed it:

14:35
ja: i've sent a message to Dave
14:36
might as well post it here:

Hi Dave and Bob

I am ready to accept the offer under conditions you propose. However, as your words have not been followed by actions so far, I will require a small token of your good will. If you want to sign peace you need to destroy the road you have just built east of my city and accept your offer in-game instead of only proposing it.

Iskender

brb
14:37
bobchillingworth: heya

I think he forgot to propose last turn
14:38
as for the road, shouldn't be a problem, but since the connection will probably soon be covered by your culture, you don't want it?
14:52
ja: nope, i don't like roads. make hooves too soft
14:53
bobchillingworth: heh, okay

also, I'd like Sareln to be covered under the NAP

he's more or less the Calabim's vassal

it would be... awkward if you attacked him

ja: i didn't agree for that
14:54
if you station units in his cities i won't attack them

bobchillingworth: um

why not just not attack them at all
14:55
kind of silly for me to have to stick random units in his cities...

ja: because these three conditions pushed the envelope quite a bit already
14:56
i have no intentions to attack salern anyway

but i'd like to cover it by a separate agreement with him
14:57
bobchillingworth: Considering that he's under the protection of the calabim and that I think the terms of peace proposed are fairly generous given our relative power disparity, I'm hesitant to aquiencse to that
14:58
If you attack Sareln while our two civs still have an NAP, the calabim will be left with a difficult decision, and we have a very strong imperative to protect our investment in the Svaraltar
14:59
I personally don't see why you would bother with him anyway, and you've said yourself that you have no plans to, so I'm not sure why this would be an issue

ja: let me reiterate: i have no intentions to attack svartalfar, quite the contrary. however, i wish to discuss relations between me and them with salern
15:01
bobchillingworth: okay, but be forwarned that he is under my protection- and that I believe his civ is out of favors to grant
15:04
ja: fair enough

Now let's see what they will do with the deal after seeing Warcry :D

Last but not least, the defenders of Feiss Mabdon:

[Ilios]

So has peace been made? Do you think you'll get more concessions out of the Vampires by popping your Worldspell?

[Iskender]

I am waiting for their in-game offer. If they accept it, I will.

I don't want to change the deal. Land division is fine, I could squeeze 2 more cities in the west without violating the deal. Duration of the NAP is far from perfect, but I could live with that.

[Iskender]

Just got this from Dave:

Hi Iskender,

I'm glad to hear that we will have peace. I'm embarassed to admit that I was so busy cutting and pasting emails and screenshots into my lurker thread that I forgot to offer peace in the game before I passed the turn. I assure that my desire for peace is real, and I will accept peace if you offered it, and offer it if you did not. In either case, I will pillage the road as you requested.

Dave

A serendipitous mistake! It cost me my Worldspell

[Iskender]

I have accepted the peace offer. It means that:

1. There is a 10 turn cease fire between Hippus and Calabim
2. There is a NAP between me and Calabim up to turn 200. That's a really long time on Quick speed. I wish it was a bit shorter, but given the circumstances I'm fine with it.
3. I won't explore any lairs close to Calabim borders. No biggie. I'll just farm them for experience. There are already 2 warriors en route to a barrows near Calabim borders to kill a skeleton.
4. A road on a forest tile within Feiss Mabdon BFC will be destroyed. I'm not sure if they realize how important that point is for me considering they're Raiders and it's not possible to pillage improvements within one's cultural borders.

It was a strange war indeed. At the beginning I was ready to sacrifice a city, and i would have if they had made a move to threaten my core cities. The peace offer came as a big surprise. Until the final, accepted offer I really believed the attack was the final stage of a grand plan cooked dozens turn, even before Bronze Working was researched by Calabim.

In retrospect, I am ashamed how I handled this 'war'. First I fell for the "barb city" story by Bob, got greedy and settled right in their face while opening a dungeon that I knew would peeve him. Then left the city underdefended despite the obvious increase in Calabim power rating. Finally, when sh*t hit the fan i ran away crying to Pocketbeetle asking for help and 'redefining my role in the game' already. The cherry on top was casting Warcry the turn before a cease fire. I just hope than my reasoning was sound at that moment - if they had won the 75% battle with the shock II bloodpet and scratched my other 2 shockers badly enough they could've neutralized my only defending force. And i believed there were reinforcements coming any turn, after all those 10 bloodpets were only 30k of the total 100k power rating.

But what's done cannot be undone. In a moment of despair I asked PB for help and he answered. For this I am grateful. Sometimes can see him scheming (ie. when he encouraged me to pop the Azer dungeon again), but in a critical moment he didn't hesitate to aid me and moved that giant right away. I sad that "if i come out of this you'll have a good ally on the south" and I'm going to stand by it.

I've reactivated the Ale for Cotton deal with Salern. I'm going to inquire about the nature of relation between him and the Calabim. PB described it as 'friendly', but the conversation with Bob revealed it to be more of a vassal-lord deal. If Salern is not happy about the deal there is a possibility of subversion that I could support without openly defying NAP.

Short-term plans: I'm going to finish Archery and move on to Festivals. Instead of Archery Range I'll chop a settler and settle the spot south-west of Radonnor (the pink dot in the map few pages above). Then probably continue developing economy, trying to catch up with food output and technologies, so expect a few dozen turns of boredom. Or not?

[darrelljs]

Your playing a great game dude...this thing could have been a huge disaster for you but it wasn't. Yeah, you lost your worldspell which sucks but all in all you still have a nice position .

Darrell

[Iskender]

Thanks Darrell. I lost Warcry, but hey, Rowain and TheArchuke are still alive! Unfortunately Rowain has lost the bonus already, he'll stay home and entertain the ladies while the guys go explore the jungle.

Sent a message to Pocketbeetle explaining the situation and promising to return the favour:

Dear Pocketbeetle

As you can see in the logs, the war between me and Calabim is over.
They approached one of my cities with a stack of bloodpets and made an
offer that I found acceptable. We agreed to have a NAP until turn 200
and established a settling border. I wish the NAP was shorter, but I
wanted that peace badly. Casting Warcry was a mistake on my part, or
rather a consequence of a series of previous mistakes.

In a critical moment I asked you for help and you offered it. I
believe this giant could've turned the tables in that war. I said thay
you would gain an ally in the south and I stand by it. If some day
you'll find yourself in trouble you can count on me.

The stack that paid me a visit was only 10 bloodpets. I saw another
three garrisoned in Acaia, his westernmost city. That's only 39k of
Calabim total power. I have no idea where's the rest of their troops,
they might be up to something. I have some 10 warriors with warcry in
case you needed assistance but the spell is wearing off already.

In five turns I'll have a coastal city, we could open borders and
establish a trade route.

Cheers, Iskender

And this is my stab at scheming:

Hi there

I didn't want to touch on this before the peace deal between me and Calabim was completed.

Some of our negotiations involved your civilization. Let me paste it:

-----
[the chat with Bob pasted few posts above]
-----

(Sorry for misspelling your nickname - it must be those awkward FfH names that slowly make dyslexics of all of us)

I got the impression that you might not be happy about the nature of the relationship between the Calabim civilization and yours. If you ever wished to change it I offer my assistance. While I can't take overt military action because of a long NAP with Calabim that ties my hands, I could assist you in many different ways if you wanted to leave their 'protection'.

Cheers, Iskender