[spoilers] - Pindicator makes America great again!

[scooter]

Here's a weird alternate plan just to throw another idea out there, but it would need to be put into action immediately, and I'm not necessarily sure it's better. It's just different. It also eliminates the turns of the worker sitting on his hands.

The gist: 1 worker, 1 forest chop, settler EoT25. So 4T quicker, 2 less forests die, but 1 less worker and 0 warriors.

It involves growing to sz2 on a warrior or something (a throwaway because it'll decay), which is better than it normally is due to the 3F plant. Details:

Build Order: grow to 2 while building warrior (7), swap to worker (16), build settler immediately after worker (25)
Worker 1: farm sugar (21), move onto forest (22), chop (25)
Tech: Mining (7) - BW (21) - Hunting (29)

Compared to:

Build Order: Worker (12), start 2nd worker on t13, swap to warrior t14 and grow to size 2 (18), swap back to worker and complete it with chop (24), finish warrior (25), chop out settler (29)
1st Worker: farm northern sugar (17), have nothing to do for 3 turns, move to forest (21), chop it into worker (24), move to forest (25), chop into settler (28)
2nd Worker: move to forest (25), chop into settler (28)
Tech Order: Mining (7), BW (21), Hunting or Wheel (29)

Upsides: 2nd city 4T quicker, 2 extra forests still available for workers/settlers
Downside: 1 less worker, no warrior until after settler

It's riskier for sure. The lack of the second worker is less of an issue since with 2 fewer chops, you need fewer worker turns. I genuinely don't know if that's better or not, but I wanted to throw an alternative out there that's valid until next turn rolls.


EDIT: 1) I copied wrong sugar plant plan, and 2) This is 4T faster settler, not 3T, fixed that

[pindicator]

When do you get a settler for city #3 with that build scooter?

Edit: I'm also losing all the hammers we put into the first warrior so am unable to finish it on t25. What am I doing different?

Your lack of response to my hex means you have been rattled and I win.

Kind of hard to get rattled by a hell I've already experienced three or four times now...

Also, I didn't get the reference. Abed?

[scooter]

When do you get a settler for city #3 with that build scooter?

Edit: I'm also losing all the hammers we put into the first warrior so am unable to finish it on t25. What am I doing different?

Let me give that a shot, I haven't played it out past t25 yet.

The settler finishes EoT25, but the warrior hammers definitely decay into nothing - I made a note of that in my post. It's just burned hammers in exchange for getting to sz2 quickly. You finish the settler with no warrior - basically this whole thing hinges on the fact that barbs won't be warriors yet, and that nobody starts with a warrior.

Your lack of response to my hex means you have been rattled and I win.

Also, I didn't get the reference. Abed?

He's talking about that PBEM34 spinoff where we played that cramped map and Commodore commando's my capital (Abed). I regret that turn more than any other turn of civ I've ever played.

[scooter]

Should look like this:





Chop just completes that turn, warrior is decayed down to 0h at this point. The 0 warrior thing is possibly fine since borders fogbust to the east pretty effectively here. Still a gamble as waiting on an animal could delay planting the city, depending on where to plant.

[pindicator]

The main reason I thought 2 workers would be good was because I wanted to have us set up in a position to quickly go into cities 3 & 4. So here's what I'm looking at for t40: 2 warriors, 3 workers, settler for city #3 on the way, workers in position to connect cities and start on the rice farm on T40. Edit: I've also revolted to slavery although I don't see an immediate use for it.




I'm going to see if I can beat that with your idea.

[pindicator]

Your lack of response to my hex means you have been rattled and I win.

Also, I didn't get the reference. Abed?

He's talking about that PBEM34 spinoff where we played that cramped map and Commodore commando's my capital (Abed). I regret that turn more than any other turn of civ I've ever played.

Here's an honest question: what's my Abed / settle on deer moment at RB? I know I've got plenty of failed games to pick from.

[scooter]

Yeah... I think your plan is still better. I tried a couple variations, and I had to settle clams first given the 1 less worker and lack of warrior. Played it out til T40.



Settler for city3 is completing EoT. Worker 3 is a couple turns away. Just 1 warrior which is hairy at this stage. This could probably be refined a notch or two, but... probably not enough. The netted clams is a nice touch (chopped WB), but I don't know if it's enough.

[pindicator]

Yeah, I think I'm going to stick with the original plan. I tried a variation where I build the first warrior before the settler, growing to size 3 in the process. This delays the first settler to t29, which is the same as my double worker variation. Playing it out to t40, I'm getting a settler for city #3 at eot 39, but only 1 warrior and 2 workers here. With barbarians on I am very reluctant to build a settler before warrior. I'm not going to pull a Commodore and get my first settler eaten by a wolf. (See? Even Commodore has a well-known fail!)

I think the double worker variation will only pull away from this version because of the extra worker turns it has available. More improved tiles, working more improved tiles.

Edit: How about this spam! Just like old times

[scooter]

Here's an honest question: what's my Abed / settle on deer moment at RB? I know I've got plenty of failed games to pick from.

(See? Even Commodore has a well-known fail!)

Granted, I don't know every one of your games, but I can't think of any one catastrophic turn. I think there's two questions here.

1) What is your single-worst turn of Civ? Only one for you that comes to mind was that brutal Fintourist/Harry turn from 18, but that was more shock & awe of a team further ahead than any key mistake you made IIRC.

2) In RB history, what are the top-5 worst turns ever, and how do they rank? Factors include how high-profile the game was and how bad the swing in victory odds were. The obvious #1 is definitely Rego in PB1, but I'm curious if the Abed turn cracks the top-5 or not. What's the other Worst Turns Ever?

/shameless poke for lurker comments

Yeah, I think I'm going to stick with the original plan. I tried a variation where I build the first warrior before the settler, growing to size 3 in the process. This delays the first settler to t29, which is the same as my double worker variation. Playing it out to t40, I'm getting a settler for city #3 at eot 39, but only 1 warrior and 2 workers here. With barbarians on I am very reluctant to build a settler before warrior. I'm not going to pull a Commodore and get my first settler eaten by a wolf. (See? Even Commodore has a well-known fail!)

I think the double worker variation will only pull away from this version because of the extra worker turns it has available. More improved tiles, working more improved tiles.

Edit: How about this spam! Just like old times

Yep, glad we tried it, but Plan A still seems right.

[spacetyrantxenu]

I don't know if it's top five bad or not but it was bad and recent. PB28, wetbandit got his capital razed by galleon / cuirassier in an era when he definitely had the tech and power to prevent it. His capital was the best city in the game, holding a bunch of important wonders. After the razing he eventuallyoffered a draw to Dreylin, as the attack greatly narrowed the gap between them as game #1 and #2.

I'll have to think about some other options.