[Spoilers] DZ'CH is apparently a catchy name

[greenline]

Moai isn't available in this era.

I think getting either a scientist or an engineer would be a good roll. Could rush Taj or save it for SoL if we get an engineer.

[Donovan Zoi]

I'd go for the infrastructure (Univ + Observatory) in the capital first since we are getting an early academy there. In Bombay two galleons would be neat so we could see where the two seas go in each direction and if circumnavigation is possible. Explorer or Library in the last city works I think? We can probably delay land scouting a bit since we aren't going to be able to settle it for a while

I agree with University as next build in Delhi. I am also thinking Galleon in Bombay to head west with an Explorer heading SW out of Vijay to meander down and meet up with it.

Where are all our workers at this point? I know I need to log in and do some worker micro, but part of that is that I don't know where all our workers are coming from (how many are finishing, and where), and that feels like DZ's territory. (that, and Serfdom and Steam Power make the numbers wonky, and I'm more likely to screw them up )

Right now, there are 2 FWs in each city, with 1 more at each bookend 2 turns from now. This is a total of 8 and I feel will be sufficient for now. As far as micro goes, I am fine with realtiming it, as I am able to project 2-3 turns in advance. FWs give you that luxury with the additional movement, especially once roads are built. I can try to post options if there is a true choice, but it basically looks like a "collect all the goodies" strategy at first

Nice that we found scooter/Sulla; their explorers aren't coming near our capital, are they?

No they are safely east of Bombay, with our Explorer being more of a "threat" to them at the moment. We may want to come up with a policy of how to handle any Explorer that approaches Bombay.

Delhi: I can understand working the forest hill this turn, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to next turn over either the seafood or the improved pigs. Just how much do the odds for our great scientist drop if we swap to an Engineer for just the one turn? We could also delay it for a turn by just pulling off one scientist, which might be the better option (especially since the cottage and gold shouldn't be improved until we have the Academy anyway). I like the University next here.

I'll have to take a look. If anything, not working the seafood for its last suboptimal turn down doesn't bother me much, and we get a net gain on the lost gold by having the Academy a turn earlier.

Bombay: Oh, we have a lot of FWs over here--that worker plan makes sense then. The problem is that there isn't that much to improve here after the resources--the plan can't be to start roading to the capital, is it? Or are we just going to start cottaging, even if this doesn't want to be a true commerce city?? I also don't like either of the builds here that much--of the two I'd say a Galleon (as I don't know if it ever wants a Library), but I'm honestly wondering if we don't want to get a Barracks in there and prep for this to be a minor military pump (not the most, as the main military place probably wants HE+WP, while this is clearly a Moai site--Moai's available, right?), especially with Scooter/Sulla on this side.

No Moai as greenline mentioned. Ho HE or NE either IIRC. Still liking Galleon if only to stay ahead of naval surprises, but also like Theatres as a quick build since we are going to need to build cultural defense organically -- no Walls or Castles in this game.

Vijay: Again, this is another place where I don't think we ever build a Library. I think we want a FW here if you don't think we have enough already. Maybe we put the Barracks here, freeing up Bombay to build a Galleon?

I don't know if I would say never to a Library especially if we are able to secure SoL. But this site is certainly more geared to be IW + WP and pump out Great Engineers. But both wonders are pipedreams until we get to 6 cities and earn a GG though (level 6 unit needed for WP). Add Oxford in Delhi to this endeavor and Operation 666 is born.

[Cheater Hater]

No HE or NE either? That feels like a much more significant change than Moai. And yeah, that makes IW+WP the default production powerhouse. What other NWs are left then--Oxford and Wall Street, National Park (which needs to go somewhere, keep that in mind), and Rushmore? Hermitage too I guess, but that doesn't seem meaningful unless we want a culture win (and I have no clue how practical that is, especially less than 10 turns in and next to BGN and Scootlla. Did I miss anything?

How useful is a GE pump? Which wonders are important for a non-cultural win besides Statue of Liberty and Three Gorges Dam? Sure, Pentagon and Christo are nice to have, and someone should rush Taj eventually (even if it's just someone overvaluing it with their first GE), but nothing else seems that important--are you supposed to just settle them?

I'm still wondering if we shouldn't be pushing out Settlers more aggressively--sure, they are expensive, but they pay for themselves a lot sooner, right?

Speaking of cities paying for themselves, when do we slot in Courthouses? For that matter, do we go full-in on espionage at one of the cities? IIRC, active espionage is banned (though I don't remember if that includes spies or just missions), but tech path will be useful soon. Also, you did remember to focus on Scootlla after we met BGN, right?

[greenline]

I'm still wondering if we shouldn't be pushing out Settlers more aggressively--sure, they are expensive, but they pay for themselves a lot sooner, right?

I think the issue is just finding the right time for the cities to build them. Right now if we start settlers at size 3 we'd be crippling our early growth and tech rate just to get out some equally weak cities 20 turns from now. I think the question is whether to start building them once our cities are working mostly improved tiles or to wait until levees.

Speaking of cities paying for themselves, when do we slot in Courthouses? For that matter, do we go full-in on espionage at one of the cities? IIRC, active espionage is banned (though I don't remember if that includes spies or just missions), but tech path will be useful soon. Also, you did remember to focus on Scootlla after we met BGN, right?

Courthouses don't seem to valuable since our cities are so close together.

[Donovan Zoi]

Hey guys, just a quick update. We met REM this turn and he offered us map4map. I say we go for it in this case, because we will gain more info on the land between us. He is IMP after all, so it will be nice to see where he is coming from so we can plan accordingly. And we pretty much block of anything he can hope to take, so getting him this map doesn't help him too much.



Here are our cities real quick. Progressing nicely, and will grow even faster once our Granary is full:







So we may be able to talk about Settlers and Courthouses sooner than we think! Let me know what you think of our next builds too. I did not finish the turn yet.

[Cheater Hater]

Yeah, our cities are growing really fast--I feel like Bombay should start a settler after finishing the Galleon/growing to size 5 (whichever comes last; I think it grows a turn after the Galleon finishes but I'm not certain), partly because it doesn't have many good tiles to grow onto.

How much is an explorer going to help us, especially if we get the REM map trade (which I agree with, considering he's almost found our capital already)? I feel like maybe we should build whatever garrison unit we'd want with the fourth city in there instead--how long does a Rifle take? Related, I think the faster growth of working the silks at Vijay is better than ivory, since they have the same raw yield. If we want an explorer maybe we should build it in Delhi, so we can quickly load it on the Galleon?

BTW is circumnavigation a thing on this map?

[greenline]

Yeah, our cities are growing really fast--I feel like Bombay should start a settler after finishing the Galleon/growing to size 5 (whichever comes last; I think it grows a turn after the Galleon finishes but I'm not certain), partly because it doesn't have many good tiles to grow onto.

Couldn't we build a bunch of workshops for it on the land tiles beforehand?

[Donovan Zoi]

I am thinking Bombay lends itself best to Workshops (especially with Settlers at a premium), but I'd still like to foster quick growth by using the coastal tiles where possible. Despite their limited yield, they will still maintain the status quo on 2-3 turn growth while adding more to our research base with each tile. This is the same reason I am advocating for initial Windmill sites in Vijay after Iron/Silks but possibly before Horses/Ivory.

Once we have Silks, Ivory and Gold connected, our cities will have the happiness be able to grow to Size 13 (14 for Delhi), so I really don't want to stunt that just yet with an early Settler. But we'll want to keep an eye on REM, who may be able to 4-whip Settlers out of his capital if he is in Bureau.

[Donovan Zoi]

Turn 259 - 1745 AD

OK here is where we stand this turn:

Delhi


The ribbon has been cut on or new Academy, and Steam Power is down to 26 turns, but that will improve even more.

This is because we finished the Flood cottage this turn and will have the Gold hooked up next turn, just as our capital hits Size 4. I'd like to cottage both wet grasses next (they can mature to Hamlets in 8 turns, not 10) then road our way to the Silks. I think we should bring a worker up from Bombay so our capital will keep improvements ahead of growth.

Any thoughts on what to do with the wet plains? I am leaning toward cottaging these as well to enhance our science focus. We still have 3 hills and a tundra Lumbermill to develop, and I would consider workshops on one of the two dry grasslands. More on the other grassland in a moment...

Bombay


Here is the reason for the worker shift, Bombay just doesn't have as many workable tiles. Plus it's more important to make sure our Bureau capital has all the tools it needs, especially since we stunted our growth to get the Academy.

I am all for getting Workshops running on most of these tiles, allowing our Lighthouse tiles some use to sustain growth/commerce until we have a Settler-worthy production city going (26h x 1.25% = 32 hammers )

This does not include the two tiles north of the Corn, as I would to create a farm corridor to some water to our crops. This can be changed back to add more production once we have grown a bit, and can be toggled back and forth whenever we need to do so.

Vijay


Not much excitement here -- a couple of roads built. But this move sets up improvement of a tile per turn for the next 4 turns.

Iron ----> wet Windmill ---> Silks ---> Ivory

This should put us slightly ahead of growth and give us a chance to road/chop. You'll notice that I have been on Research for the last 2 turns, but I would like to see us build a Library here next turn. We can get it 6 turns once the Iron is available next turn.

Or we can also see how additional Iron hammers toward research here will coordinate with our Gold windfall next turn.

Demographics


Here are our Demos with all 3 of our cities still at Size 3 -- number 1 in two categories, with our production deficit on the mend. We are set for some explosive growth here, and I am really excited to see what the next few turns will do for our relative numbers.

Next post, something something MAPS!

[Donovan Zoi]

Turn 259 Continued

Map Trade with REM

I was dreading making this post, only because what our trade revealed has opened so many discussions that I am not going to address it all tonight! But here is what we learned:

1. The lands for NobleGas were included in this map. They are just west of REM.

2. It's a repeating map (not sure of proper term) in that all 7 civs appear to have similar layout with minor changes.

3. Our civ is connected by land on all 4 sides by various types of landbridge:

North: Dreylin
South: BGN
West: REM
East: scooter

4. There appear to be two islands for everyone --- well almost. We would have to compete with BGN for the one to the southwest and Dreylin for the one east of Delhi.

For now, i am just going to post the territories for REM, Noble and us, so you can review the subtle differences. Let me know your thoughts and I will post more tomorrow.

Us




REM




NobleGas