[SPOILERS] naufragar and Rusten get nickel-and-dimed

[Rusten]

You're right. It will probably be apparent when testing, but chopping a work boat should be far superior to farming fp. I think we will whip it 4-3 as opposed to 3-2, we should aim to work a fp cottage as soon as possible in addition to the clam and copper. We've got enough food -- no need to farm the fp.

Sheep is available through capital culture T51, so that's the turn I'd aim to settle deer+sheep as city #5. I think MSCC will be uninterested as it's just 4F surrounded by dead tiles -- we should get it. It's marginal long term, but for our samurai push it's very useful for whipping at +6fpt. Desert city has its hands full working cottages anyway.

The gems are really important for the happiness. I expect a forge in our capital so that's +2.

Are you going to update the sandbox? If yes, please send me one. I think we know all the relevant land tiles.

[Rusten]

Honestly, we should probably cram an aggressive plant 1NE of the gems or something similar (and put cows in 1st ring). It won't have a food tile most likely, but it would grab a bunch of forests for mathematics whips chops later. Farming 1-2 flood plains is enough with a granary. We should be able to protect it just fine as there are no other targets, and we need the land.

We can't leave those forests to our opposition.

[naufragar]

It's a good enough spot, but it'll set Superdeath on a permanent vendetta. Gems are great for us, but those gems need iron working, and the timing might work out that it's easier to kill Superdeath first, rather than plant aggressively and tech to IW.

I'm still working on a plan, hope to have something before tomorrow. Getting our copper hooked is ridiculously painful, requiring us to send workers to the back end of nowhere and then bring them back.

Edit: I'm also an idiot and I added too much water to our west on that sandbox I sent, pushing back the landmass and fish.

[Rusten]

IDK if that's enough to put SD on the warpath. The gems are as close to us as it is to him and he will get the ivory, sheep and banana. It's on our side of the peak and jungle. MSCC is just as much of a natural rival for the spot. 1N of gems is only 5 tiles away from our capital, I think it would be a mistake to pass it up. IW is not required, it will have 2xfp and hills. It's more settled for the river and forests than to immediately improve the gems. And it does secure the tile for us long term. I think it's a good 4th city, with the cows as #5 and deer as #6. I'm more interested in the happiness bonus than the immediate extra commerce from improving it. Besides, we have so much commerce that we can easily fit in IW after MC (and writing).

But I've yet to run simulations, that will clear things up a bit.

[naufragar]

Of course, as soon as I say I'll have a plan, I get called away. Got back to the turn a little tired and made some bad moves:


Moved the scout and I think I'm out of sight of SD's borders, but I could be wrong. Unfortunately, his warrior could be 1E of the sheep and I didn't check. Assume he spots us next turn. If he follows the coast, he'll be at our borders in 6 turns. I know I think of the worst case, but Superdeath wandering a warrior our way and checking our power via demos and noticing we don't have a warrior seems like a realistic fear. Ugh.

He didn't put any EP into us last turn, so he has another neighbor. I wonder if he moved his scout south and this warrior is now going to scout the north. We have 40 EP on MSCC, so I've managed it to put three more into them and start on Superdeath. This might have to be curtailed if MSCC keep pumping us with EP.


You're right about the gems distance. I wasn't counting tiles. Our distance is diagonal, so it feels longer. I don't have much more to say until I have a plan to present. That's going to take a while, sorry.

(In case it's not obvious, I'm panicking about Superdeath walking a warrior up to us. On average, two Agg warriors can kill an unfortified warrior in a forest, but boy could it be dangerous. There's no reason for him to walk through the jungle up the coast instead of making a circle around his territory, right? Right? )

[Rusten]

I ran some simulations and it all felt crap as we have no tile to build/play around and seafood is trash early on. I'll have another go tomorrow. Was left feeling very unsatisfied.

But I'm finding it hard to justify a 30 hammer wb for the clam. That's 30 hammers which could be 2 warriors defending our city plant, and those 2 warriors are hard to fit in otherwise. And if we don't get the wb then settling 3N is a little suspicious.

Very tempted to start simming desert copper hill for city #2, but it really messes up future city spots. Settling on the copper would save a lot of worker turns and it's also a 2H city center. Keep in mind that we can start on an axe (chop) immediately upon settling there. It's quite safe for that simple reason. Can't get choked either. That's my plan for testing tomorrow.

[naufragar]

We met somebody:


I guess Mr. Cairo is getting Superdeath's EP right now. Speaking of which, we got graphs on MSCC. I've put them in spoilers because I don't see anything too exciting. Obviously they don't have seafood.

5 turns until Superdeath's warrior might show up. Put our EP into him. MSCC put 44 into us. If they continue putting EP into us, we'll have to think about whether we keep their graphs or gain SD's. We should think about turning the scout around to fogbust soon.

[Rusten]

Barbarians can spawn as of T25, right? So we only have a few turns of double moves left. Maybe go to where Cairo's scout is right now and then head back.

You can see how much EP people have on each other in the F4 screen BTW. Just click a leaderhead.

[naufragar]

Barbarians can spawn as of T25, right? So we only have a few turns of double moves left. Maybe go to where Cairo's scout is right now and then head back.

You can see how much EP people have on each other in the F4 screen BTW. Just click a leaderhead.

Yeah, turn 25.

Completely forgot that we could check other people's EP spending on third parties. Only checked Superdeath's on us (0pts).

[Rusten]

Preliminary sim. Write-up on the save I sent.

Follow the old plan of chopping 1E and 1S of corn with workers (1 turn pre-mine on PH). First available worker goes 1E not 1S (important for wb IIRC).

T29/30 first worker goes to chop 1W of sheep, other worker mines PH. Settler completes and moves 3N while capital starts on a work boat. New city works flood plains and starts on a warrior.

T33: Chop and mine finishes and capital is size 3. Work PH-mine for wb in 1t. Both workers move to grass hill 1SE of city #2 to chop.

T34: Capital takes clam (!) and starts on warrior (doesn't slow city #2 growth).

T35: Capital puts 1 turn into settler and switches clam to PH-mine. City #2 takes clam.

T36: Capital takes back clam and finishes warrior with chop overflow while simultaneously growing to size 4. Warrior moves towards cows to secure city #3. Workers road grass hill and then improve copper. My sim sent both workers to copper, but it's possible that we only need the 1 (first available) as it only slows down copper yield 1 turn (but delays hook-up further).

T37: Capital resumes settler production but keeps clam for another turn until city #2 is size 2. This is to make sure we reach exactly 50 hammers to enable 2-pop whip. As of T38 city #2 has clams for good.

T39: 2-pop whip the settler at 50/100 and move towards cows. New city will have a worker available to improve the tile. Start on granary and chop 1E of city after improving cows --> whip granary 2->1 (most likely, not actually played through it).
Capital grows back to either size 3 or 4 and gets a settler for desert hill next. That city is settled in time with border expansion which enables sheep even if it's in the 2nd ring. The city also gives a flood plains tile to city #3 to boost growth.

Tech: I don't think we're getting any cottages right away so it's possible we should go hunting-AH before pottery, but I didn't check this yet. That would mean not getting a granary in city #3 most likely. As mentioned in the PM I think city #2 can get the settler for the aggressive gem plant. If you need screenshots or more intermediate saves just let me know. Best I could do with neither a 5F nor 6F tile available.