RPB3 SPOILERS Bismarck of India (regoarrarr, darrelljs, sooooo, sunrise089)

[regoarrarr]

Okay - chats with HRE / Ottomans and Portugal, being done at the same time while also chatting on the side with darrell. Don't say I don't ever do anything for you guys

So a new group called PAT is apparently forming.

Egypt, Carthage, England, Babylon, Mali are the key parts.

Portugal was invited but wanted to stick with us and do not appear to be able to get us in. Even so, darrell and I decided we didn't want to abandon HRE/Ottos.

I have a draft to Rome to try and get them on our side, and darrell is going to send out ntoes to Byz / Maya.

I'm not too scared of 7 civs against our 7, even if they have most of the good techers.

[regoarrarr]

Uhhh I was going to ask who ended turn for us but apparently CivStats says that I did just now.

So... we need to make sure and log in and make our moves before the turn flips on us

I asked portugal not to end turn, and in the process, freaked out darrell who was also in the middle of chatting with them in the same window

Would recommend that Green Label the chariot kills the barb axe near MB (make sure to wokr the cottage it's on once it's dead). It's 95% with no promos so we should be able to get him to sentry.

ETA: I would recommend Heavy D the worker move SE and chop the forest near BB while we wait for MB's borders to expand to get the silver

[sunrise089]

Ok, I moved everything and killed the NW axe. 95% to kill a Babylon bowman+settler combo next turn if we want

[regoarrarr]

I vote we kill it unless they give us their word they're still giving us Currency

[regoarrarr]

Email from Ottomans

Portugal have talked to us Reost-CAN. They have been invited into
the new group we are all fearing but they are going to refuse. By
extention we have lots of info about them now. I'm not sure how much
you all know, but best to make sure we are all on the same page.

The group is called PAT and its members are currently
Carthage/England/Egypt/Mali/Babylon. Maya have also been asked but
haven't agreed to the terms yet. Rome (and Inca) have probably been
asked, but we haven't heard anything about them yet.

That leaves us with AWTA/Byz/Portugal. Byzantium will undoubtely be on
board with us, we need to invite them ASAP. Rome and Inca are unknown
since we haven't heard much from them. They are fairly important
(otherwise we'll be 10v6, no chance) so Portugal are trying to talk
with them right now. Maya are unknown ATM but we'll need to work on
getting them in ASAP after we get a clearer picture.

Firstly, we need to get as much people as possible in. Rome/Inca are
probably the main ones, although Maya is important as well (but more
unlikely). After that we need to start co-ordinatting research as much
as possible. BTW their policy on trading techs agreed by CAN depends
if they decide to honour the deal or not (England has, Carthage
hasn't) but we will still need to research everything anyway.

However, firstly we need as many people as possible, and need to start
talking to the other non-PAT members. I'll also forward you a message
that has been sent from PAT to Portugal.

So at least we're out in the open with Portugal and the rest of AWTA.

I'm going to send that Rome draft since I think we need tos end something

[regoarrarr]

Email from Portugal, forwarded by Ottomans, regarding terms of PAt

Please only share this around in the strictest confidence. Do not
share yet with Incans or Romans.

This was sent by England to us/carthage/egypt/maya/mali/babylon. It
has already had agreement from carthage and mali that I know of.
Others may have also already agreed as we were added quite late. These
terms were also modified by some later responses but nothing that
important.

> So, the other thing we need to do, is come up with the formal terms of what we're agreeing to do. I'm intentionally distinguishing the pre-Currency and post-Currency situation; the game changes a lot with Currency.
>
> England's proposal:
>
> 1) Sharing of techs and gold in an equitable manner:
> - Researchers will be chosen based on the following criteria:
> a) Maximum Beaker Rate
> b) Beaker-Gold Skew (For example, at current rates, England can convert 43 gold into 51 beakers, for a 51/43 = 1.19 skew; Babylon's is certainly significantly high)
> c) Gold availability/costs per turn: If we can't fund everybody's research, then this will be quite relevant
> d) Availability to start a new tech (not likely to be an issue long-term; this is more for the pre-Currency situation. For example, since Carthage has the highest max beaker rate at the moment, and has finished Construction, so can save some gold now, it's expected they'll start one of the next rounds of tech as soon as they're available)
>
> Funders:
> As long as a funder is sufficiently supporting research, they are owed all techs researched upon request. If a civ is not meeting the definition of "sufficiently supporting research", then gifting the researcher tech is at the discretion of the researcher.
> A definition of "sufficiently supporting research":
> a) Supporting, in gold, at least 60% of the cheapest researcher's costs OR supporting at least 50% of the most expensive researcher's costs, whichever is lower. At the moment, this is a very low value (England's costs are 28gpt, because of our large army, so 14 gold would be "50% of the most expensive", but for, say, Babylon, whose costs are around 15-18gpt, 60% of that is only 10-12gpt). Essentially, if we get to 8 civs, we're guaranteed 3 researchers, and hopefully can get up to 4, or at least mostly-fund the 4th researcher.
> - Subclause: Temporary exemptions for war-related reasons. This is for either large offensive operations, or for defensive conflicts where you need to whip your economy into the ground to survive.
> b) If the current researchers are not being fully funded, and a funders' civ has gold available, it needs to go to fund the researchers.
> - Subclause: Possible exemption: If you can justify that an upgrade is needed to prevent damage to your civ.
>
> Lightbulbs:
> Also owed to everybody, as if researched. First-civ bonuses are still your own (Liberalism's free tech is considered a lightbulbed tech).
>
> Wonders:
> All reasonable steps should be taken to avoid wonder races within PAT members. If an agreement can't be reached, one option is to have a third civ use a random number generator like random.org to decide who gets to go for the wonder; the civ researching the tech would get 2 chances, every one else interested would get one. Or you can race.
>
> 2) Bilateral relations:
> - NAPs are considered amongst all PAT members to be in effect for the duration of this alliance, with a 10t cooldown.
> - No obligations for mutual defense. While we want everyone to ensure the mutual safety of all PAT members, England does not believe it's fair to force you to defend your neighbor if it puts yourself at risk. Mutual defense is strongly encouraged.
> - Settling: be reasonable. Again, we're not going to dictate terms, but when in doubt, tiles closer to a players' capital should belong to that player.
> -Offensive operations: That is fully at the discretion of your own civ. Except for gold, as previously mentioned, any and all benefits of offensive war are fully yours.
>
> 3) Outside tech trades
> Any tech researched after Currency is finished cannot be traded to non-PAT members without at least majority approval.
>
> 4) Dissolution:
> So, while ideally this organization will last until the game end, we all know that there's a chance someone would want to leave. However, we'd also like to ensure that anyone who does leave isn't leaving their allies who funded their research in the cold without the techs that their soon-to-be-ex-allies paid for.
>
> Our dissolution proposal:
> No warfare within 10t of announcing your desire to leave PAT.
> Any techs researched or lightbulbed within that cooldown period are still owed to PAT members (letting a tech sit at 99% finished on the 10th turn would be in very bad faith). However, any techs researched by the remaining PAT teams during that time are NOT owed to any civs leaving PAT. Also, during that 10t dissolution, a civ leaving PAT is under no obligation or expectation to fund research.
>
> --
> Cyneheard, Haphazard1, Antisocialmunky
> Lords of Avalon
> Suryavarman II of England

[regoarrarr]

Draft to Maya

Hey Kittens,

So it seems that the diplo in PB3 is flying fast and furious! As you are no doubt aware, a new diplo group is being formed. The word on the street is that you (Maya) are one of the "cool" kids, while we (India) are one of the "losers". Our sources are unclear as to whether or not you have confirmed membership or not.

So are we destined to continue to be on opposite sides of the diplomatic spectrum? I have to say, the general consensus of our team was a hope that when the diplomatic winds shifted (as we were all sure that they would), that we would be able to use the bonds that we formed between our two civs to manage to end up on the same side. But having not heard from you, we're having to assume the worst, that we are not to be part of this "cool kids'" club.

We have to say that we have an "ANTI-PAT-HY" (e.g. settled aversion or dislike) to the group that is being formed anyways, and would much prefer for you to join us over on the other side of the street.

Either darrell or regoarrarr should be around today if you want to stop by for a chat

PARTY ON!

DJ Civ

Need to send this soon probably.

also Ruff does have only 2 cities, but has 2 settlers in production. He was working on Aesthetics but has swapped off of that.

He also offered us settling rights to a gold tile at about 12N, 10E, if we want it.

[regoarrarr]

Okay emails sent

Byz

Hey Spectres!

Thought now would be a good time to try and catch up. As you are probably aware, it seems that the diplo here in PB3 is flying fast and furious! It seems like a new diplo group is being formed. It's still a little unclear as to who the "cool" kids are, but we are pretty sure that we (India) at least are one of the "losers". I guess you'd know better than us whether you were "in" or not :-). Suffice it to say, if a group of civs (England / Carthage / Egypt appear to be the ringleaders) have approached you about joining an exclusive new group, then you're in. And if you haven't been approached, then you're out :-)

We only found out about its existence late last night and are now faced with the prospect of either coming together to counter the group, or facing the risk of getting picked off one by one.

I know that we've had fairly good relations during this game, despite being (at least for the early game) on opposing sides of the diplomatic fence. It was our team's wish that when the diplomatic winds shifted (as we all knew that they eventually would), our 2 teams would find a way to get shifted on to the same side of things.

And now it appears that we might be shaping up to do just that? That is, unless you're a "cool" kid and we haven't been invited :-(

There's probably too much here to talk about over just email - so if you'll be around later today, try and grab us for a chat. Either regoarrarr or darrell should be around for most of the day

PARTY ON!

[regoarrarr]

Mali

Hey Emperor Capac,

Just trying to catch up on diplomacy and realized that the "something substantive" that we promised was err... lost in the mail? Perhaps we could pass it off as barbarians sacking the mail wagons across the vast expanses of desert between us?

In any case, it seems that the diplo in PB3 is flying fast and furious! As you are no doubt aware, a new diplo group is being formed. The word on the street is that you (Mali) are one of the "cool" kids, while we (India) are one of the "losers". Our sources are unclear as to whether or not you have confirmed membership or not.

I guess at this point, there's not a whole lot of point in exchanging pleasantries or talking about the weather, while ignoring the 500 pound elephant in the room

So we accept if you would like to be a part of this or any group that doesn't include us. After all, we haven't been that close to you since we barely met a few turns ago! And while it is a bit disappointing that so much of the alliance structure in the game depends on who happens to be randomly assigned as your immediate neighbors (perhaps future games should allow contact even before in-game contact?), that is the way the game is, and what can you do?

But we would like to know whether you plan on honoring your CAN agreements of distributing the Calendar tech when you research it?

PARTY ON!

DJ Civ

[Rowain]

Hm is it smart to hint that you know the name?

Edit: hmpf seems I'm already too late