[SPOILERS] - Tredje and Mardoc are Sheelba of the Clan of Embers

[Ilios]

Yup, you need Hunting to get the Ivory resource.

[Mardoc]

Good luck on your exam - hopefully you don't need it!

And Ilios, thanks for the info on Dragon Bones. I suppose that just makes it a nice tile, not an overwhelmingly nice tile like Yggdrasil.

On to the current dilemma. It might be worth settling the copper early for the production at the front/second warrens. It won't grant us bronze weaponry yet, though, we've got to research Bronze Working first. Which, if we're going to war, might not be a bad thing to do soon (after Exploration, though)! I think I'm inclined to say yes, settle it before the Warrens. The production for 20ish turns in a new city is probably not that much less than the production saved by gaining a duplicate settler.

On For the Horde, the big problem with it is that the troops we gain are spread all over the map. If the concern is maintenance/warning, then waiting is best, but it'll take a few turns between calling it and having any impact on the war. So I'd even be somewhat inclined to call it now, even though we don't intend to fight just yet. Or else wait exactly until Masonry is in, then call it. It'll probably eat up most of our income, so we'll be committed to war at that point regardless. Ideally, though, For the Horde supplies all the army we need and our production can stay focused on workers/settlers more than anything else.

So, I guess my recommendation is to finish off Masonry, get our troops in position and as much treaties covering our backside as possible, then immediately call For the Horde and see how much wreckage we can cause to Bob before the money/horde runs out. Ideally, we'd even get a city out of it, but I'd settle for pillaging every tile he owns .

On Sareln, I agree completely. We'll need a reasonably fair distribution of land, but an NAP/settling agreement that leaves us only Bob and Iskender to race sure sounds like a winner to me!

[Tredje]

So, yesterday was a bit hectic, but today I have some time to take a closer look at the game.

Here is a screenshot with some information:

The first interesting thing is that I have elected to move our Wolf Rider along the northern shore of the lake. What I hope will happen is that when we cast For the Horde we will have troops coming in from the East and our Wolf Rider can hook up with them. Bob will have to spread his forces and we can hopefully cause him some difficulties. Warriors produced in the West will move in on his second city.

Also to be noted is the fact that Bob has revolted to God King. This will make his capital very productive, and he can produce a significant number of Warriors. With a Warren we should still have the advantage, but it will not be easy by any means.

I think I will use FtH in 2 turns when Masonry is in, like you said. It will probably take some time for our new troops to move into position, so a declaration may come several turns later.

I will have a chat with Sareln later today about future cities. Will keep you posted on any news.

[Gaspar]

Finally decided to bite and read a thread in this game, picked yours because I was hoping you'd build 342535 wonders.

Interesting reading. I'd be interested in seeing a rush well-pulled off. I feel like in FfH your rush window is even smaller than in BTS, because Bronze Warriors are so cheap and useful. It does seem like Bob is a logical target, though as you said earlier, there's lots of late game teams in your game and they're all dangerous to a Civ such as yours.

Anyway, just letting you know I'm lurking with intent, and best of luck.

[Tredje]

Hi Gaspar! Happy to have you here. Laughed when I read your comment about Wonders. Yeah, sometimes I get carried away

I am holding the turn for now because I need to discuss a matter with Mardoc, preferably in PM. It regards sensitive information, even too sensitive to post in this thread I'm afraid.

Had a chat with Sareln today about a settlement deal. He originally wanted to settle 1N of the Clams and 1SW of the Rice. I thought his suggestion was preposterous. What does that leave for us? Nothing. My immediate reaction was that he can shove his deal and live in fear. He then said he would be willing to settle his northern city on the Copper tile instead, but I still think it's a lousy deal for us except for the fact that we secure our western border. What's your take on the matter Mardoc?

Square Leg approached me today about firing our worldspell. He said that he is building an army of Wood Golems (he bulbed Construction) and he is cranking out a WG in 2 turns in his capital. He intends to go for Serdoa before he gets Pyre Zombies. He wanted to know if we could provide assistance with our worldspell. As much as I like having him as an ally I don't think it would be in our interest to assist him in securing a huge chunk of land in the east. So I will most likely say that we will need our new recruits ourselves.

[Mardoc]

Hi Gaspar! Happy to have you here. Laughed when I read your comment about Wonders. Yeah, sometimes I get carried away

I am holding the turn for now because I need to discuss a matter with Mardoc, preferably in PM. It regards sensitive information, even too sensitive to post in this thread I'm afraid.

Had a chat with Sareln today about a settlement deal. He originally wanted to settle 1N of the Clams and 1SW of the Rice. I thought his suggestion was preposterous. What does that leave for us? Nothing. My immediate reaction was that he can shove his deal and live in fear. He then said he would be willing to settle his northern city on the Copper tile instead, but I still think it's a lousy deal for us except for the fact that we secure our western border. What's your take on the matter Mardoc?

Square Leg approached me today about firing our worldspell. He said that he is building an army of Wood Golems (he bulbed Construction) and he is cranking out a WG in 2 turns in his capital. He intends to go for Serdoa before he gets Pyre Zombies. He wanted to know if we could provide assistance with our worldspell. As much as I like having him as an ally I don't think it would be in our interest to assist him in securing a huge chunk of land in the east. So I will most likely say that we will need our new recruits ourselves.

Ok, after looking at the save, I agree that Sareln's proposed settling deal is ridiculous from a fairness standpoint. That's pretty much saying 'you can keep what you already have, but I get the rest'. The only way we want that is if we absolutely need the backlines secure.

Our big problem is that 2-front wars really really suck, though. And we can't afford to be too bullying in diplomacy until we gain an advantage. I'm inclined to either sign an NAP but make no land commitment and race him for it, switch our focus to Sareln instead of Bob (although I dislike leaving a mastermind untouched), or push for a more equitable settling deal. We're kinda limited by our lack of info, though - we don't have the knowledge to say what's fair. Maybe what makes sense is the turn after we declare For the Horde, to hope for more info, and then revisit the discussion with him?

Or, depending on what we get from FtH, plan on war and choking/killing as many targets as we can, starting with Bob and Sareln, and trusting Iskender/Serdoa/Square Leg to get the message In fact, I'm thinking the best thing for us to do is to see what we get, and make our diplo decisions immediately afterward, depending on what turns out to be possible.

On Square Leg vs. Serdoa, I think you're right, we can't commit to help a war that does us no good anymore than Iskender can commit to help fight Bob. That said, we ought to offer at least non-aggression and scouting info.

[Gaspar]

I can say this since I'm lurking only this thread - Don't underestimate how much the other teams are afraid of you. Are the Amurites of all Civ's really going to respond to you not signing a NAP by behaving aggressively in the early turns? I'd say the likelihood is very slim. I'd go so far as to say your backlines are secure based solely on you having such a late game civ as a neighbor.

Just my two cents.

[Mardoc]

I can say this since I'm lurking only this thread - Don't underestimate how much the other teams are afraid of you. Are the Amurites of all Civ's really going to respond to you not signing a NAP by behaving aggressively in the early turns? I'd say the likelihood is very slim. I'd go so far as to say your backlines are secure based solely on you having such a late game civ as a neighbor.

Just my two cents.

You know, that's a very good point. Maybe what we do is say straight up that that settling deal is unacceptable, we're not sure what to propose in return without more info, so we might have to race him.

And then, after we declare on Bob, send a global message to everyone we know that this is in response to aggressive settling and a conspiracy for aggressive settling, and see how they react

Frankly, at the moment with our Square Leg front secure, and him keeping Serdoa busy - Bob, Sareln, and Iskender are the only ones for us to worry about. If we attack Bob and settle toward Sareln/Iskender, that might be our best approach at the moment (although I do still want the copper city soon).

As an aside, I was contacted by Sareln by chat just now asking where you are; I told him you're holding the turn for my input, and he assumed that was a response to his proposed settling deal. I assume it's something else, since you were willing to talk about that here, but I didn't disillusion him.

[Tredje]

Small teaser for lurkers:

For the Horde has been casted.

The good news: We got 10+ troops of which 3 Archers and 4 (!!!!) Sons of the Inferno.

The bad news: The Sons of the Inferno are on an island to the south. In other words, the Clan needs to learn how to swim.

Will post a larger update tomorrow.

[Gaspar]

Make sure to include power graphs with that update.