[SPOILER] Jowy - Peter of Egypt (Green Game)

[Jowy]

Haha good luck! Maybe it's worth a try to convince Malakai to unvassalize, considering it didn't grant him the quick ending he was undoubtedly hoping for. I have a few well chosen words for TT, but I'll leave it for the post-game discussion.

[Tatan]

The Contenders



For once, the in-game Diplomacy screen got it [almost] right. Tech Screen is a pretty good approximation of our positions as well:



But anyway.

First, the baddies.

Twinkletoes, evil henchman

• Diplomatic Relations: In the past, nonexistent. Likeliness for that to change is estimated to be approximately NOT to the power of GOING TO HAPPEN.
  
• Military Strength: Low; the destruction of his CKN stack devastated him.
  
  
  Of course, if TT continues playing the way he has been, that army is just going to keep building up. The ~19 HA stack is still at large, and I haven't seen it for several turns. Either this means TT is hiding the stack, or he is returning them to Kyan! Still, as long as I stay alert, no immediate worries from Twinkletoes.
  
• Units Buildable: Horse archers, pikes, CKNs, [probably] longbows, and cats/trebs. I can expect maces to start popping up soon, and eventually even knights.
  

Kyan, evil arch-mastermind

• Diplomatic Relations: Also pretty much nonexistent. He might try to chat me up about vassalizing to him, but obviously that's a no-go.
  
• Military Strength: High as Jimi Hendrix.
  
  
  Yup, that's him with the Rival Best Power. Of course, a lot of those points are from techs, but Kyan still has a large force, and like TT's military that force is only going to get larger. What's more, according to a HOT TIP from an undisclosed source, Kyan has 10 cavs traveling through China towards *me*, with an ETA of 2-3 turns [and this was two turns ago...]. It remains to be seen how Kyan uses his forces.
  
• Units Buildable: Cavalry and rifles, with grenadiers at MilSci and cannons at Steel both only one tech away [and infantry only two techs!].
  

Next, the valiant heroes.

Seifer_MD, savior

• Diplomatic Relations: Great. We're communicating quite a lot, have mutual plans for support, and seem to have formed a de facto team which will last until death or Kyan's extremely improbable defeat.
  
• Military Strength: Go back and look at that power graph. Seifer's power, at the moment, is... underwhelming. However, that doesn't tell the whole story; Seifer has been teching as rapidly as possible without much regard to military because he was supposed to be safe, an ally on each side, and because getting contemporary tech to Kyan was critical. Plus, most of the military Seifer did build has been gifted to me. But the small army size is not going to last; with industrial units finally in hand, he's going to be building a lot more soldiers. He says that he will keep a small force on his western border to safeguard against Malakai [more on that later], but the rest will head towards the southern border so that they can defend whoever Kyan attacks in force. Seifer's forces will be key in the coming conflict, because my current advantage against Kyan is numerical; but as soon as Kyan brings a force to match, less advanced units simply won't hold up.
  
• Units Buildable: grenadiers and knights, with cannons hopefully becoming available shortly, and rifles/cavalry on the distant horizon.
  

Tatan, future steam-roller victim [that's me!]

• Diplomatic Relations: Fantastic!
  
• Military Strength: Well, right now I'm #2 in power, so I guess that says something. List of units:
  
  
  So, as you can see my military is a hodgepodge of medieval units. That's actually not too shabby against Kyan's 10 cavs and whatever TT has, but obviously even vast numbers won't help against almost as vast numbers of people with large guns. So how will I fight Kyan? Well, the way I see it, I cannot go on the offensive right now; one-movers [esp. siege] would get completely picked apart by cavs and whatever TT can scrape together. So the only attack possible would be a one-move strike against Nanjing with knights, which is obviously inefficient and unfeasible. This means I am completely confined to defense [keep in mind that for all this, I am assuming an attack on me and not Seifer]. However, this gives me the advantage of being able to hit first; the only one-movable city is Alexander, which would require mounted units to cross a river going into a city with a castle that is filled to the brim with fortified units. So, yeah, I'll probably get to strike first. Kyan's units will have a higher strength, but that can be easily cured with enough collateral damage. Of course, if I'm to have enough collateral I'll need to be building cats constantly in almost every city; so how will I get enough units to actually wipe through the injured units? Hmm, what allows me to pull decent units out of thin air? Golly, I dunno. As an aside, I've heard that sarcasm is often hard to communicate in print. Well, THAT WAS SARCASM. Anyway, I already have Gunpowder, so all that's left in order to draft muskets are Drama/CoL, Philosophy, and then Nationalism itself. Of course, that's a ways off, but hopefully I can survive until then with my existing force. Additionally, once I get a chance I'll dash up a few muskets to Seifer for the ol' gift-and-upgrade trick to pull some extra muscle. Anyway, that's my grand plan, crammed into this one monstrous bullet point.
  
• Units Buildable: knights, cats, pikes, and muskets, with cuirassiers off on the diissstaaannntttt horizon.
  

Oh, and I musn't forget the hopelessly neutral.

Malakai, secret informant [*maybe*]

• Diplomatic Relations: I somehow managed to never contact Malakai, and he never contacted me either, so I have no idea. HOWEVER, despite vassalizing to Kyan, Malakai is still keeping up friendly relations with Seifer! It seems that Malakai was forced into vassalization for his own safety [i.e. Kyan was going to crush him], and didn't even realize that Kyan was planning on using the vassalization for a Domination Victory. So Malakai has pledged to Seifer to honor the NAP they had [don't know how long it is, though], and his deal with Kyan allows this [for now]. Malakai has also stated that he intends to honor a pre-existing ROP-Disclosure agreement with Seifer, wherein if a third-party [*cough* Kyan *cough*] is planning to attack one of them through the other's territory, the victim will be informed. So, in other words, we will have advanced warning if Kyan moves to attack Seifer over land through Inca, at least in theory; Seifer is leaving a force on his western border just in case. Malakai was also the aforementioned source who gave us the HOT TIP about Kyan's cavs. So, hopefully, we can use him as an informant, or at least keep him out of Kyan's invading armies.
  
• Military Strength: I have no exact numbers, but I doubt he has a very big military, and regardless it is almost certainly technologically-inferior. I mean, he did capitulate super-easily to Kyan [and unfortunately, Jowy, I fear this means we won't be convincing him to un-vassalize any time soon ]. So his army is not going to be doing any immediate fighting regardless.
  
• Units Buildable: [purely from guessing based on his tech screen] muskets, knights, and cats, with rifles available relatively soon.
  

Looks like this is going to be fun! Unless I lose.

If I were to summarize with a cliché European World War II analogy:
-Kyan is Germany, because he's big and bad and dangerous [not meant personally!].
-Twinkletoes is Italy, because he is obviously Kyan's crony.
-Malakai is France, because he crumbled early but is secretly working against Kyan.
-Seifer is America/Britain, because he is the only one who can really stand up to Kyan.
-I am Russia, because [if I'm reading things right] I am about to get absolutely mauled in a bloody struggle to a much more militarily-advanced Kyan.

Alternatively, substitute cliché Lord Of The Rings analogy and have Kyan be Mordor, Twinkletoes be Sauromon, Malakai be the Haradrim [?], Seifer be the Elves, and me be either Gondor or Rohan.

Whatever analogy you use, one thing is certain: Kyan is totally the bad guy!

[Tatan]

Five front-line cities. Potentially up to four nations' armies. It's going to be crowded!

Realistically, though, Guangzhou and Leviathan will probably not see combat. Because of the bay, Guangzhou is four tiles away from my borders, making travel slow. Leviathan is only two tiles away from TT's borders, but he has no roads to take advantage of that. Of course, that could change in a single turn, so I must be cautious, but I still doubt it will face very much combat, if any.

Shiva faced several small raiding parties in my private war with TT, and was once even threatened with the HA stack. However, because of the border expansion, attacks on it will be much more difficult, so I am not very worried. Any units by Alexander will be able to offer support if worse comes to worse.

There is also, of course, the sea; TT has a couple triremes roaming up and down my coast blockading stuff ATM. But since between my two coastal cities I have exactly zero (0) sea-foods, and both cities have plenty of other tiles to work, I really don't give a clamn [rim shot]. Something that I will have to be weary of is an amphibious attack from Kyan, but for now I plan to blithely ignore that concern.

So, I think that the focus of the war is most likely to be on the small patch of land between Nanjing and Alexander. Both cities can be one-moved by cavalry from the other side, although both cities are also fortified enough to make such an attack unlikely to succeed. Which leaves slow-moving attacks, most likely in the form of moving big stacks of doom to right outside the enemy city. I'm obviously not going to be attacking, which means that, if my twisted guess-fueled logic is correct, this invasion could commence in almost the exact same way as it did last time: Kyan/TT move a big stack to 1SW of Alex.

So, how do I prepare?



Longbows, pikes, and maces remain in Alex, guarding against a one-move attack, while my knights and cats move behind the city. Those knights can reinforce whatever city needs reinforcing regardless, but by hiding the stack I might have a slim chance of making Kyan get careless and leave a stack in the open and vulnerable. And if he doesn't fall for it [or a counter-attack is just plain suicidal] and I am forced to move all my units into Alex, well, knights don't get fortify boni, and the cats weren't going to be the top city defenders anyway, so there's no down-side.

Caveat: this is just the preliminary plan, and I'll probably be fine-tuning it or even completely morphing it as things develop. Early days and all that. To sloppily craft an impressive-sounding Latin phrase off the top of my head:

Res arbitrari manent.

[Tatan]

What am I building right now?



Infrastructure, natch!

[Serdoa]

Glad to see that you have some Knights

[Sullla]

This thread is really great. I wish you had been able to play this one from the start, rather than taking over a civ that was far behind.

Also, I still don't understand why anyone would vassalize themselves to Kyan. I can see sitting on the sidelines and trying to stay out of a conflict, but signing away victory to someone else without even making an effort to resist just makes no sense to me.

I think all of the original players in this game acted foolishly, especially Kyan's neighbors who continuously ignored him and repeatedly slowed themselves down by attacking one another in pointless squabbles...

[Bobchillingworth]

.

Also, I still don't understand why anyone would vassalize themselves to Kyan. I can see sitting on the sidelines and trying to stay out of a conflict, but signing away victory to someone else without even making an effort to resist just makes no sense to me.

Well, it's Twinketoes. This sort of behaviour is hardly a new thing for him.


Also agreeing that these reports have been great

[Jowy]

This thread is really great. I wish you had been able to play this one from the start, rather than taking over a civ that was far behind.

Gee, thanks a lot Sullla But yeah, the reports have been top notch.

Also, I still don't understand why anyone would vassalize themselves to Kyan. I can see sitting on the sidelines and trying to stay out of a conflict, but signing away victory to someone else without even making an effort to resist just makes no sense to me.

I think all of the original players in this game acted foolishly, especially Kyan's neighbors who continuously ignored him and repeatedly slowed themselves down by attacking one another in pointless squabbles...

Your points are true, but you have to remember this is a greens game. The players were expected to act foolishly!

[Tatan]

Warning, Quotefest

This thread is really great. I wish you had been able to play this one from the start, rather than taking over a civ that was far behind.

Also agreeing that these reports have been great

But yeah, the reports have been top notch.

Thanks!

I think all of the original players in this game acted foolishly, especially Kyan's neighbors who continuously ignored him and repeatedly slowed themselves down by attacking one another in pointless squabbles...

I agree that many players seem to have made some pretty poor decisions in terms of diplomacy. Looking back to all the major decisions, [at least to my understanding] pretty much every diplomatic event that happened in the game benefited Kyan. Jowy and Strike/TT dragging each other into ruin, Malakai siding with Kyan against Cull, and probably a few others that I am not aware of. Honestly, Kyan's play hasn't even really seemed all that great to me either; he's had a major tech advantage for at least 40 or so, and yet failed to conquer anybody but Cull. It would have been sooooo easy to obliterate TT after conquering Cull. But, of course, hindsight is omniscient, and as Jowy said it is a Green's Game.

Well, it's Twinketoes. This sort of behaviour is hardly a new thing for him.

Admittedly, TT does seem to have a past history of this sort of thing. But to play Devil's Advocate, TT is at least half a tech era behind me, and at least two tech eras behind Kyan. Still, capitulation is lame; TT gains exactly nothing from the agreement other than an assurance of non-annihilation, which is irrelevant when capitulating has a very high likelihood of losing the game.

Glad to see that you have some Knights

Let's just say I've learned a few things since my last war.


But, moving on to

The Turn, which was, as it turned [unintentional!] out, completely non-climatic. Not even a glimpse of Mayan forces. Although it may be a bit masochist, I am starting to get impatient with Kyan; c'mon, attack already! If I don't see any forces next turn, I might have to raise the possibility of false information from Malakai with Seifer. Of course, the forces could simply be hiding, but hopefully [if they are] I will be able to find them next turn.

However, I did consider my ongoing border skirmish against TT which I have thus-far neglected to say anything about. It started a couple turns ago, while I was trying to rush some extra roads in preparation for Kyan. I realized after I had moved them that three workers were clearly visible from TT's territory and vulnerable to capture by mounted units. So I moved in a mini-stack onto the tile 1SW of Alex to guard the path to the workers, which TT attacked [but not the workers!]. Things have since escalated. I am away from my computer with all the pictures at the moment, so you'll have to deal with some simple lists.

Round One
My Stack
[INDENT]-One longbow
-One pike[/INDENT]

-is slain by-

TT's Stack
[INDENT]-Two trebuchets [suicided]
-Two CKNs [wounded][/INDENT]

Round Two
TT's Stack
[INDENT]-Two CKNs [wounded]
-One longbow/pike [don't remember which][/INDENT]

-is slain by-

My Stack
[INDENT]-Two knights [wounded, retreated]
-One ax [wounded][/INDENT]

Round Three
My "Stack"
[INDENT]-One ax [wounded][/INDENT]

-is slain by-

TT's "Stack"
[INDENT]-One knight [wounded, retreated to tile 2SW of Alex][/INDENT]

Round Four
TT's Stack
[INDENT]-One knight [wounded]
-Two pikes[/INDENT]

-is slain by-

My Stack
[INDENT]-Two catapults [suicided]
-Two knights [retreated back into Alex]
-One ax[/INDENT]


That ax is dead meat now, but I think still come out ahead overall. Don't put too much faith in the exact numbers, though, since this is all from memory.

Most alarming about all this, though, is the fact that TT now has knights, which will be a major irritation in the future. It also means that I will need to start training some more pikes, since knights, unfortunately, do not die in droves against pikes as horse archers do.

Additionally, there were two more important observances made. One, TT doesn't appear to have any sentry units any longer, unless they are hiding behind the city, so he is unable to see into Alex's tile itself. Two, TT's garrison in Nanjing consists of four units, none of which are pikes. So I moved all the knights I just meticulously moved away BACK into Alex, for a hopefully unseen threat to Nanjing. Razing the city will cost at least 7 or 8 knights [possibly more], but I feel it would be worth it for the damage to TT and the expanded borders of Alex. Of course, it turns out that Alex is on a hill and TT can see it anyway, so the point is probably null and void. It was [and still might be] worth a try, though.

One final note: Aesthetics is IN, so now I just have... let's see... 23 turns to Nationalism. :\ Alas, I shall soldier on.

[Tatan]

The cavalry has arrived!



A sentry, strongly indicating a nearby Mayan presence. Worrisome.


So, remember all that stack shifting I've been doing for the past few turns? Well, it's time to get the pay-off.



6 units to wade through, which almost certainly means a commitment of 7-9 knights [all of whom will be basically dead due to the strong likelihood of a cav-counterattack. Hmm. Hammer trade would be strongly in TT's favor, but strategically much more in my favor. Well, you know what they say.

Fortune favors the bold.



Woot, destroyed! Although I took two losses, one of them at 98% odds against a catapult :\. But as you can see, the culture of Alex expanded instantly, giving me firm control of the battefield in both the south and center, leaving only Leviathan vulnerable to a instant-mounted-assault. To that end, I moved a fair amount of cats and maces on the tile 1NW of Alex, and put the rest in the city. Kyan can still trash me, but I will almost certainly be able to deal at least some amount of damage to him now.