Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[Cull]

Re: whether to respond - I'd like to hear Kyan's thoughts. For a while now we've made the call to not go toe-to-toe with Sommer and devolve into endless arguments over minutiae. I lean towards treating this as a different matter, but I'm unsure.

I say don't be. Past matters were over game settings. This is a smear against one of the most active members in this game ATM about something two years ago.

[Bobchillingworth]

I don't see how going to the absentee game admin would help anything. At best he just sends metra a PM saying "don't do it again", which we could just do ourselves with the same effect.



I suggest a brief PM back saying something like:


"Speaking on behalf of Team RB, your PM was out of line, and we request that you refrain from making personal attacks on one of our team members again. Even if your concerns about Lord Parkin were honestly expressed, they are unfounded. Our team will continue to uphold the highest standards for sportsmanship, as we expect for all sites participating in this game."




We could of course send something much more harsh. It would be easy. Most of us despite these pricks with abundant justification. But what would be the point?

[Shoot the Moon]

Anyone else remember how they were originally trying to recruit LP to their team?

[Kyan]

Anyone else remember how they were originally trying to recruit LP to their team?

Any chance you can find this quote for me whilst I work on this?

The original PM went to: Kyan, SevenSpirits, Sullla, sunrise089, T-hawk.

[scooter]

Re: whether to respond - I'd like to hear Kyan's thoughts. For a while now we've made the call to not go toe-to-toe with Sommer and devolve into endless arguments over minutiae. I lean towards treating this as a different matter, but I'm unsure.

I also think this is different - this is not a public forum, this is a private message, so we can and should be a bit more blunt here. I'm not cool with the "game organizer" character assassinating a member of my team. I think Bob's proposed response is a good start.

I am going to withdraw from my role on the team (when I signed up for helping with diplomacy) because I don't think this will be a game I have fun participating in. I'll probably post here as long as there is discussion, since if I withdrew entirely I would probably just go argue with 2metra and Sommer on the CFC forums.

I'm probably in the same boat. I'll probably stick around and contribute some, but I don't plan on holding down a role. I don't have the patience to be diplomatic with people I strongly dislike.

[scooter]

Any chance you can find this quote for me whilst I work on this?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.p...tcount=277

Jackpot. This isn't just a "quote" - it's a love letter from Sommer to LP. Do with it what you please.

Edit: the main portion for those who don't want to visit the link:

On that note, more specifically, I want to go ahead and shamelessly beg and plead like a whimpering puppy... Please LP, please play for CFC and not RB!

[tongue-in-cheek] We NEED you! They don't! Honestly, who do you think considers you one of their higher ranked players? Who loves you more? Where is your REAL Home? You have over SIX THOUSAND posts over here and just over 1K there. Obviously you are more CFC then RB! You're the King over here. Over there you're just another guy! Don't waste your time trying to impress/ kiss up to those guys. You are already respected and admired over here![/tongue-in-cheek]

LP, all joking aside, its kind of like Richie McCaw or Colin Meads went to play for the Springboks or the Wallabies or *gasp*... Australia!!:faint:

Play with us man. Play for CFC... Seriously

[Kyan]

Realms Beyond is a home to me. It***8217;s a safe refuge where I go after a stressful day at work. One of the reasons I love RB is because it***8217;s not like the rest of the internet. It***8217;s not elitism, it***8217;s a certain level of maturity combined with thoughtfulness when it comes to other members. Sometimes we disagree, heck, I know there***8217;s folk there that I don***8217;t get on with at all, but despite that I could still work and play with each and every one of them. Personality clashes are put aside and often one party will back down (despite potentially being in the right) simply because they realise the other party cares more and that continually arguing will get us nowhere.

When you first approached Realms Beyond and asked if we would be interested, we as a community were really excited. All we want to do is play a game of Civilization against other people online. There are some amazing players in this game who will play in a whole host of styles for many fantastic teams and the thought of mixing my favourite hobby, playing alongside my good friends against some of the best in the world, is a brilliant one. Ever since that moment though, the whole thing is turning more and more sour.

Reading that link you provided shows that it was ~2 years ago. I don***8217;t doubt LP was in the wrong. We***8217;ve all done things in the past that we weren***8217;t proud of. We grow, we learn and we move on. I have trust in LP that he will not cheat. Whether other parties share that view, to me, is irrelevant- he***8217;s not our turn player anyway as it happens. As you probably know from some of our other threads here, we report in depth. I can give you my word that absolutely no shenanigans will occur. We***8217;ve currently played or are playing 62 PBEM***8217;s, 10 pitbosses and multiple other games/tournaments. This is in addition to the innumerable single player content. In all of those, there has never once been cheating. Lord Parkin is a valued member of Realms Beyond and a nice guy. He has proved on multiple occasions since that he has changed in the last two years (which of us hasn't?) and it's an honour for me to play alongside him

The most positive view I can take of your message is as an organiser worried for the repercussions of the game if someone cheated. I wonder if you would have had the same fears if this had been successful:

On that note, more specifically, I want to go ahead and shamelessly beg and plead like a whimpering puppy ... Please LP, please play for CFC and not RB! lease:

[tongue-in-cheek] We NEED you! They don't! Honestly, who do you think considers you one of their higher ranked players? Who loves you more? Where is your REAL Home? You have over SIX THOUSAND posts over here and just over 1K there. Obviously you are more CFC then RB! You're the King over here. Over there you're just another guy! Don't waste your time trying to impress/ kiss up to those guys. You are already respected and admired over here![/tongue-in-cheek]

LP, all joking aside, its kind of like Richie McCaw or Colin Meads went to play for the Springboks or the Wallabies or *gasp* ... Australia!!:faint:

Why would you effectively encourage us to kick LP off of our team due to dubious morals when he's a player that your team literally begged to join you? Furthermore, I think that PM'ing a few of us in private rather than approaching in public on RB where LP could defend himself was the incorrect way to go about things. It's a borderline infringement on the game rules at best. Metra, mate, RB don't want to argue, we don't want to debate. All we want to do is play some civilization. Once the game has started and you have official contact, you can say what you want to who you want.

All the best to both you and CFC

Kyan

Your thoughts/criticisms? I know this will likely be far too soft for most of your tastes but i'm fairly happy with it personally. Oh and thanks Scooter- much appreciated.

[scooter]

I think that's excellent. Also FYI - those weird apostrophe bugs is coming from writing it up in Word or a similar editor. If you write it in a pure text editor (Notepad, Notepad++, even Gmail compose window so it auto-saves) that won't happen.

[Sareln]

Your thoughts/criticisms? I know this will likely be far too soft for most of your tastes but i'm fairly happy with it personally. Oh and thanks Scooter- much appreciated.

I have some minor tweaks.

The 2nd half feels a bit clunky but I've got no idea how to make it flow better.

Realms Beyond is a home to me. It's a safe refuge where I go after a stressful day at work. One of the reasons I love RB is because it's not like the rest of the internet. It's not elitism, it's a certain level of maturity combined with thoughtfulness when it comes to other members. Sometimes we disagree, heck, I know there's folk there that I don't get on with at all, but despite that I could still work and play with each and every one of them. Personality clashes are put aside and often one party will back down (despite potentially being in the right) simply because they realise the other party cares more and that continually arguing will get us nowhere.

When you first approached Realms Beyond and asked if we would be interested, we as a community were really excited. All we want to do is play a game of Civilization against other people online. There are some amazing players in this game who will play in a whole host of styles for many fantastic teams and the thought of mixing my favourite hobby, playing alongside my good friends against some of the best in the world, is a brilliant one. Ever since that moment though, the whole thing is turning more and more sour.

Reading that link you provided shows that it was ~2 years ago. I don't doubt LP was in the wrong. We've all done things in the past that we weren't proud of. We grow, we learn and we move on. I have trust in LP that he will not cheat. Whether other parties share that view, to me, is irrelevant- he's not our turn player anyway as it happens. As you probably know from some of our other threads here, we report in depth. I can give you my word that absolutely no shenanigans will occur. We've currently played or are playing 62 PBEM's, 10 pitbosses and multiple other games/tournaments. This is in addition to the innumerable single player content. In all of those, there has never once been cheating. Lord Parkin is a valued member of Realms Beyond and a nice guy. He has proved on multiple occasions since that he has changed in the last two years (which of us hasn't?) and it's an honour for me to play alongside him

The most positive view I can take of your message is as an organiser worried for the repercussions of the game if someone cheated. I wonder if you would have had the same fears if this had been successful:

On that note, more specifically, I want to go ahead and shamelessly beg and plead like a whimpering puppy ... Please LP, please play for CFC and not RB! lease:

[tongue-in-cheek] We NEED you! They don't! Honestly, who do you think considers you one of their higher ranked players? Who loves you more? Where is your REAL Home? You have over SIX THOUSAND posts over here and just over 1K there. Obviously you are more CFC then RB! You're the King over here. Over there you're just another guy! Don't waste your time trying to impress/ kiss up to those guys. You are already respected and admired over here![/tongue-in-cheek]

LP, all joking aside, its kind of like Richie McCaw or Colin Meads went to play for the Springboks or the Wallabies or *gasp* ... Australia!!:faint:

Why would you effectively encourage us to kick LP off of our team due to dubious morals when he's a player that your team literally begged to join you? Furthermore, I think that PM'ing a few of us in private rather than approaching in public on RB where LP could defend himself was the incorrect way to go about things. It's a borderline infringement on the game rules at best. Metra, mate, RB doesn't want to spend a month arguing about setup[Strike] argue, we don't want to debate[/Strike]. All we want to do is play some civilization. Once the game has started and you have official contact, you can say what you want to who you want.

All the best to both you and CFC

Kyan

[nabaxo]

I went ahead and took a screenshot of that post since I honestly don't trust Sommer to not go back and edit it.

I think the text is fine Kyan. Fix those apostrophes and it's good.