The Dark arts - C&D Master Thread

[kjn]

While in PYFT mode, I ran some numbers on the life expectancy.

We know that the CivFr got 85, which comes from 6/7. Thus they have four or five forests in their BFC.

Spanish and CFC got 66, or 4/6. They started with a single forest in their BFC, but one of the teams got a forest growth on T2, bringing them to 71, or 5/7.

Rival average on T1 was 82, and top 90. 90 likely comes from 9/10 (10/11 is a also a possibility), which implies six or seven forests with an EXP team, or at least ten forests for a non-EXP team.

82 average, with the known teams removed, gives an average of 88 for the rest (4 teams), though one of them might still have reached 90 or gone down to 85. That implies 8 or 9 forests for the teams that settled T1, though the EXP teams might have a few less.

The thing that is strange about this is that the two teams that start with Mining (CFC and CivFr) ended up with the least amount of forests to chop. It is especially weird in the case of CFC, with their fast worker. They started the game with a single choppable forest.

[kjn]

T9 - 3640 BC

Lots of new info to digest, with five score changes, four techs, and two new pop points. And lots of changes to food, soldiers, approval, and life expectancy.

Total soldiers grew 10,000. Of that 2,000 is pop growth, so tech had a total of 8,000.

WPC gained a tech and grew to size 2. They also built a warrior on T8. At 8t research @ 10bpt it has to be Hunting.

The Spanish gained a tech. At 9t research @ 11bpt and knowing Hunting, it has to be Mining. At a guess, they will go for BW next. I will be on the lookout for any GNP spikes.

Apolyton gained a tech. At 8t research @ 10bpt it has to be Hunting.

The Germans gained a tech. At 8t research @ 10bpt it has to be Hunting.

UniversCiv was the one score increase that was pop only. Since we know they had 3hpt from T1 (thanks Sullla!), they were the one who built the T6 warrior.

The four civs that didn't research a tech yet are probably researching Agriculture. I expect CFC to get it next turn, CivFr T11, and CivPlayers and Univers on T12.

Looking at life expectancy, there is one interesting thing to note: top civ is unchanged. I had become pretty certain that the Germans settled on a minor food resource, just as us, but now it seems they are the EXP team with lots of forests; ie I will have to guess that they settled on a plains hill.

[Sullla]

I went ahead and finished the Population and Power tables for the turn. Thanks to the great work of the team, we have no holes on our Power listing for the moment. That won't last for very long, so enjoy it right now.

We Play Civ has emerged so far as the team that bungled their start the worst. Despite starting with a warrior, they still felt the need to open with a warrior build. I guess they wanted two of them for some reason? In any case, this means that their Agriculture starting tech will go to waste; they'll have to spend the next 9t building a worker, finishing on T18, any corn/wheat/rice resource they might have not being improved until T22 at the earliest. We'll be getting 6 food/turn starting on T14, so that's a very drastic mistake indeed.

Definitely agree that the last four teams that didn't get a tech are all researching Agriculture. (The other five teams, including us, started with it.) Looks like everyone has corn and deer at their start, as we guessed already. Given how ungodly expensive Bronze Working happens to be on this map in the early game, we are probably safe from an early axeman rush, but we will indeed need to watch for any jumps in Power. Going Mining -> Bronze Working before picking up Pottery feels like economic suicide to me, based on what I've seen of the map.

[kjn]

T9 tile-swapping data. This is of course very tentative, since I can't reach more than 6F. Univers has finished their turn, so they have selected their new tech and tiles, but WPC hasn't logged in.

GNP:

16: 9 (8 at 16 or better)
17: 5 (4 at 17 or better)
18: 2 (1 at 18)

Production:

2: 9 (8 at 2 or better)
3: 6 (5 at 3 or better)
4: 2 (1 at 4)

Food:

3: 9 (8 at 3 or better)
5: 8 (7 at 5 or better)
6: 4 (3 at 6 or better)

Putting it all together:

GNP
16: 5
17: 3
19: 1

Production (total 22)
2: 3
3: 4
4: 1

Food (total probably 45)
3: 1
4: 0
5: 4
6-8: 3

Either Univers or WPC has picked up a 1C-tile. Production is unchanged. Food increased. I think it's a safe assumption that they both work 3F tiles now.

None of the civs with new techs have ended turn yet. It'd be nice to know if they picked up a discounted or un-discounted tech, after they ended turn.

[kjn]

I haven't found any good explanation to how the Top Cities screen is calculated, but I did find a reference in an CFC thread to Assets/Python/Screens/cvinfoscreen.py

So without further ado: The inner workings of the Civ 4 Top Cities Screen!

:2dance:

Code:

iTotalCityValue = ((pCity.getCulture() / 5) + (pCity.getFoodRate() +
pCity.getProductionRate() + pCity.calculateGoldRate())) *
pCity.getPopulation()

I'm assuming getCulture and getPopulation implies total culture and pop, while the Rate values gets the values for this turn.

Putting it more sensibly and with some more digging, we get:

Code:

CityValue = pop * (culture/5 + F + H + commerce)

Main factor in the equation is pop.

For this game, whoever of Univers or WPC that picked up the 3-0-1 tile is #1, the other is #2, CivFr is #3. The Spanish and CFC share the #4 spot. CivPlayers and Apolyton share #6. We are #8 (assuming fractions are kept). The Germans are #9, since they rely on their EXP like us bonus.

[kjn]

Apolyton has ended T9, and top GNP is now 20. They are now likely researching [STRIKE]Agriculture[/STRIKE] Animal Husbandry at 14 bpt (10*1.4), with 8 overflow beakers. Expect it to arrive on T22.

[kjn]

We Play Civ has emerged so far as the team that bungled their start the worst. Despite starting with a warrior, they still felt the need to open with a warrior build.

Not only that, they missed to work their deer on T6. And they start with Agriculture.

Given how ungodly expensive Bronze Working happens to be on this map in the early game, we are probably safe from an early axeman rush, but we will indeed need to watch for any jumps in Power. Going Mining -> Bronze Working before picking up Pottery feels like economic suicide to me, based on what I've seen of the map.

There is that possible gold/silver/gem mine or fur camp to consider, however.

The one team I'm concerned about right now is the Spanish. I'd really like to know if they picked up a discounted (likely BW), double-discounted (AH), or not discounted tech when they finish their turn.

[kjn]

The Spanish ended turn, and @20 GNP we are still #2, @19 #3, @18 #4, @17 #6, and @6 #9.

That makes the new distribution:

16: 3 (CivPlayers, Germans, and Univers or WPC)
17: 2 (CFC and Univers or WPC)
18: 1 (CivFr)
19: 1 (Spanish)
20: 1 (Apolyton)

Ie, the Spanish are most likely researching Bronze Working (the only possible alternatives are Archery and Masonry). With 9 overflow from Mining and 13 bpt, they should get it on T25 (16 turns from now).

ETA:

The Germans ended turn, and they're still at GNP 16.

Candidates are Fishing, The Wheel, and Mining.

[kjn]

T10 - 3600 BC

Demos:

CFC's score increased from 29 to 35 (a tech). No changes in any other demos, including soldiers, since last turn. CFC has worked a 3-0-1 tile for its ten turns, so has 110 beakers now at the base rate. Ie, they've researched Agriculture.

[kjn]

Tile-swapping on T10 reveals that we now are #4 in GNP @19. This is likely that CFC picked up a discounted tech after Agriculture, going from GNP 17 to 19.

Alternatives are AH, BW, and the religious techs. I think BW is the most likely.