[SPOILERS] Cornflakes and Q Eat 'Em for Breakfast!

[Cornflakes]

(And Krill doesn't butcher our forces...).

Obviously I'd like to have as much survive as possible, but as long as we kill Krill with enough force to deter Bigger from invading immediately I don't really care. I'm producing cannon full steam ahead at a rate of about 1.2/turn (roughly 6 cannon in 5 turns) and knights at about 1/turn. Krill cannot advance on us now that we have that hill border city so we get to choose the invasion timing. That border city is a huge strategic position because we'll have 25% hill defense + 25% fortify plus we'll outnumber possible attackers.

I currently have 25 grenadiers, 15 knights, and 15 cannon available for the attack (muskets distributed around as defense, but some will join the advance). I also have a SuperMedic. After this turn I'll probably swap the knight cities over to producing cannon. Cannon will be useful for a long time yet and will soak up collateral from Krill's cannon. I want about 30 in the stack by the time I advance, which I should be able to achieve in about 10 turns (enforced peace expires in about 5).

[Cornflakes]

I've been thinking about the long road to victory, and have come to the realization that it's going to be a long road. War turns run me about an hour a day of actual in-game time, plus at least 30 minutes to type the reports ... and I'm gunning to win by Domination/Conquest which means I have about 6 months of war turns ahead of me.

I think our chances of ultimate victory are good. We just need to stay in "last place" of the teams that are still "in it to win it". Nobody will want to attack us because doing so would basically forfeit their chances of victory. They'd have to go all-in war to defeat us, and if they just cripple us we lock into war and they're crippled while the other team(s) tech to victory regardless.

Nobody is really teching right now. Commodore is running breakeven and has picked up Compass/Optics recently (Watching for Astronomy), Bigger has about 2500 gold saved making +275gpt, 2metra has about 2000. We have roughly 1800g making +275gpt.

[Qgqqqqq]

I don't think this game will last all the way to victory, once one Civ gains an unbreakable advantage it'll be conceded.

Yeah my question about modifiers was badly worded - I meant city modifiers really.

How much gold would it take us to reach communism or rifling?
Also, if we're in for the long haul, perhaps we should start spending EPs versus Commodore to try and remove his advantage? Especially if he's the threat to our AT holdings.

What civics is everyone in?

[Cornflakes]

If I had to give an honest raking of our current standings I'd go

1) Bigger ... Bigger has the full compliment of monk wonders which are really boosting him, plus he has the best land in a geographic position (EDIT: wrt difficulty of assault) that is difficult for conventional attack. If this was NTT + Espionage off he could hole up in his current geographic position and tech to victory. As it is I think that we can keep tech parity by stealing and then bide our time. Nobody is going to win without a fight. We just have to bide our time and take out the easiest-at-the-time target. I have a couple Evil Schemes™ up my sleve for crippling Bigger, but those are not practical at present. If Bigger plays conservatively I think that he'll be able to pull off victory through space. If he worries about our growing dominance and tries to take us out he'll collapse in and eternal war of attrition.

2) Cornflakes ... I'd put us here. We go all military + Espionage, let Bigger tech up and leach off of him with EP while we take out everyone else. We have to go all-in war though to make this happen. My plan is Banks + Jail during the upcoming GA, and then Galleons to take out Commodore.

3) 2metra ... 2metra has a defensible geographic position that will be hard to crack. He's in a bit of a bind though. He's clearly behind Bigger, but he hemmed in on the West by us and the south by soon-to-be-us once we take out Commodore. From his point of view, attacking us would be suicide. As soon as we're crippled we just fight to make sure he doesn't win. If he doesn't attack us then we eventually gun for him after adding Commodore's land to our empire. If we get bogged down in an early war with Bigger then 2metra has a chance, otherwise I think he'll take 3rd.

4) Commodore ... Commodore has been near the back of the pack all game. Now with my recent map musings I've noticed that he's extremely vulnerable to naval assault. He is our next target after AT/Krill are eliminated. In the current world he is in the same bind as 2metra. If he cripples us while we're engaged with AT then we lock into war and he doesn't win. If he doesn't cripple us before AT is eliminated then we build up again and take him out next. I estimate DoW in about 30-40 turns (circa T140-50) coming by sea with 15 7-move galleons and a hoard of 2-3 promo Frigates.

*) Jowy ... Jowy is just playing for laughs at this point, and has been ever since AT hit him. No chance at victory, but still a decent empire. I expect that Bigger will gobble him up soon. If no then we'll likely absorb his cities as soon as we're finished with Commodore.

*) AT ... AT is falling precipitously off the stage. He went from 2nd to exit in a matter of 10 turns

[Cornflakes]

I crossposted with you. I'm on the way out the door so I'll respond later.

[Cornflakes]

I don't think this game will last all the way to victory, once one Civ gains an unbreakable advantage it'll be conceded.

Thing is, I'm expecting it to come down to Bigger and I each with massive modern armies. An infinite gruesome duel ... unless I can catch him off guard like I did AT ... if I have time I'll post an evil scheme of two.\

How much gold would it take us to reach communism or rifling?

At full butn + research builds all around we can tech SciMethod > Communism in 9 turns at 400gpt, so we'd need 3600 gold. As you'll see in the turn report I'm going to burn our 1900 gold on Military Tradition + Knight > Currassier upgrades for use against AT, and later Bigger.

What civics is everyone in?

[Cornflakes]

The Facts
– Peace expires with Krill in 5 turns (can DoW T214).
– Krill has his cannon in a stack out in the open (zone defense).
– Without Cannon Krill dies quickly and painlessly
– Currassier can flank Cannon.
– I have a stack of 20 knights near Pipe Dream.
– Units must be upgraded inside friendly territory
– The staging tile is one turn of movement outside friendly territory.

The Plan




– At full burn Military Science takes 4 turns of research. We need it in 3 + turn for upgrade + turn to stage = 5.
– Scientist Merc specs + Research builds in all our hammer centers (excluding Porcupine) just barely get us the required bpt for 3 turns.
– 3 turns at -400gpt will leave us with 700g. Knight > Currassier upgrade costs 50g/unit. We'll have enough gold for 15 upgrades. Might swap for some reasearch > wealth on the last turn if possible to be afford all the upgrades.
– Upgrade the knights 1SE of Pipe Dream on T212
– Move Currassiers to YELLOW staging tile T213 (we already have OB with Bigger). We move 6 workers with the stack to build all three roads if necessary (in case the one we stage on get's pillaged)
– T214 we DoW on Krill, road the intervening tiles, and kill his cannon stack.

it's possible that Krill may move his stack as the peace expires, but we're 2 tiles of movement minimum from NCIS so he'll have time to respond to an invasion there and may keep his stack in zone defense. He also doesn't have culture vision on the staging tile. He probably doesn't have EP vision on Pipe Dream because it was founded by us and doesn't have his religion. Even if he does move the stack we'll still get better use from Currassiers as opposed to Knights. Currassiers will fight Bigger's Pinch musketeers no problem.

[Qgqqqqq]

You sure he doesn't have a sentry unit to spot your forces?
Ignoring that, I think not research building/scientists (which is very inefficient) and instead declaring T215 wouldn't sacrifice much and let you buff the forces considerably.
Other then that, I like (are the upgrades really 50g? I thought it was 20+5*hammer difference??), especially if we can use against Bigger while he researches Democracy
(On which note, we should close borders - he has FM and we have Merc so we're giving away money. He also has scouts in our land whereas we have EP vision so the advantage is on our side.)

[Cornflakes]

Without the research builds it would be another 3 turns because we'd use another -400g and would have to save up for research builds. I'm not worried about inefficiency. Perhaps I should be, but I'm just trading 5 cannon builds for research. Maybe that's not worth it, but we'll see.

We need OB with Bigger so we can move through his territory. Plus we'll have spies in his land soon and we'll be doing more espionage then him. Is it true that he gets TR's with us while we're in Merc? Our imports/exports value on the demographics is 0.

I tested and the upgrades are 50g.

[Qgqqqqq]

Err no, its not true, and I'm an idiot
Ok, I didn't realise how much of an effect they'd have.