FFH II PBEM VIII Lurker's Lurking Thread (For Lurkers) [SPOILERS]

[HidingKneel]

I think Ravus has been highly successful in making the game awesome (or at least, fun to lurk). Too bad he's about to get smashed.

If Krill manages to get an empire up and running, I think he could put up a pretty good fight against Mackoti. I could also see him getting snuffed out fast, though, if Mr. Yellow actually puts those HAs to use...

[Bobchillingworth]

I still think that Sareln could win this. Late-game March of Trees will stop any Infernal invasion cold, and if applied offensively could wipe out any cities on Ljo borders. Against the Vamps, Sareln apparently has a crazy-long NAP with Mack. That's enough time for the Ljo to accrue a serious army if he wants to fight head-to-head, or perhaps just steal a Tower win if he wants to keep playing it passive. Sareln's biggest issue seems to be that, as far as I can tell, he hasn't actually decided on any sort of military line to emphasize, aside from PoL. Hunters and Tigers aren't going to cut it against Vampires.


Edit- I see he mentioned drafted LB armies. I think I suggested that to him in chat a few months back (although I'm sure it would occur to anyone). Ljo LB are tough units to get one's head around. I really *want* to like them- on one hand, you can get them to champion-level strength with Iron weapons and Flaming Arrows, and they're stupidly difficult to kill in cities even after Maelstrom / Ring of Fire, and players are I think generally loathe to promote units to Cover. But on the other, they have an alarming and honestly depressing number of faults vs. Champions-


* Champs get their boosting enchantment with adepts; LB require mages.

* Champs get a special bonus vs. Melee units; LB have only defensive bonuses and a couple first-strike chances easily invalidated by a T1 spell.

* Champs can use Mirthril weapons; LB are limited to Bronze / Iron.

* If you want to get the most out of your LB, you'll want them to have Iron weapons, and if you have to research IW then why not just build Champs and save the beakers you were going to spend on Bowyers?

* LB can't take City Raider promotions.

* LB and Champs both are 80 hammers and only cost 2 pop to draft, so there's no production savings taking one over the other.


In the end, I'm sadly forced to conclude that Ljo LB, while probably capable of carrying an offense, are still inferior for that purpose compared to Champions; they're best saved for either Team games as support units for holding allied cities, or specialty units for games where having really tough defenders justifies expending 2,000-something extra beakers. That said, Sareln is Arcane & will thus surely have mages, and will probably never reach Mirthril weapons anyway, so some of the reasons to avoid LB aren't relevant here.

[Ilios]

I'm sorry guys, but unless Krill can come up with something spectacular, I don't see how Mackoti could lose this. Vampires really are stupidly overpowered.

[Tasunke]

Bob, I think you are ignoring the benefit of the Defensive strikes to some extent. I mean sure, Mackoti is bound to have it as a top priority once he realizes Sareln is building Longbows (as he has Shadow palace mana) ... but Krill may not have it.

Therefore, it may be in Sareln's best interest to save Krill for last.

Still, I agree that he can't hope to win with only LBs and Tigers.

To win I think he needs/should have some druids for entangle ... plus Air 2 (at least) and hopefully Fire 2 and assassins.

Still, 4 Druids + Yvain can stop most armies. So that should probably be a priority if he can tech that far before the war.

[Tasunke]

I'm sorry guys, but unless Krill can come up with something spectacular, I don't see how Mackoti could lose this. Vampires really are stupidly overpowered.

if you are just talking about the spectres .... if Hyborem gets to Drill IV (AND has march) then the vampires will be in real trouble.

Heck, if Hyborem gets to Malevolent Designs (before the vamps dow him) the Vamps will be in trouble. Mardero at Drill IV would be even worse for Spectre spam than Hyborem with Drill IV. Plus he can wither the Vamps with Entropy 3.

I dunno ... I see Rust adepts, possibly fireball mages, and definitely Malevolent Designs units as being the main winning card for Krill (if he is gonna have a chance). and I dunno ... he might even make it. I for one hope its gonna be an even fight (between Krill and Mackoti)

[Bobchillingworth]

I'm sorry guys, but unless Krill can come up with something spectacular, I don't see how Mackoti could lose this. Vampires really are stupidly overpowered.

Yeah, he probably can't take him in a straight fight. But 50 turns to secure a tower victory? Surely that must be possible, assuming Mack respects the NAP and doesn't win a non-conquest victory first.

[HidingKneel]

Yeah, I think Sareln's only shot is to go straight economy while his NAP lasts, and hope to win a peaceful victory (tower or cultural). I think Krill has a much better shot at stealing the crown, but I wouldn't put money on either of them.

[Serdoa]

Yeah, he probably can't take him in a straight fight. But 50 turns to secure a tower victory? Surely that must be possible, assuming Mack respects the NAP and doesn't win a non-conquest victory first.

And why would anyone trust mackoti to honor a NAP? He showed in PBEM24 that winning the game is more important for him then sticking to his NAPs, so I would not expect him in this game to act differently. Of course he might simply overlook the win-condition but if not, realistically, you can expect a shitload of vampires to invade Sareln, NAP or not.

[Mardoc]

And why would anyone trust mackoti to honor a NAP? He showed in PBEM24 that winning the game is more important for him then sticking to his NAPs, so I would not expect him in this game to act differently. Of course he might simply overlook the win-condition but if not, realistically, you can expect a shitload of vampires to invade Sareln, NAP or not.

Sareln needs to go read uber's PBEM2 thread, then. Or Amelia's .

[Selrahc]

For those of you wondering: this is what an Armageddon rush looks like.



T90. Armageddon has hit. The Horsemen have eliminated my competition.
On a dual sized map with isolated starts, its a pretty incredible method of attacking an opponent indirectly.

This is not the map for it.