Do they know that we know that they know that we know that they know ...?

[pling]

News of the turn: TEAM's second city grew to size 2, and it's borders popped giving them 9 6 extra land tiles. (edit: I wrote down 9 when I was thinking 6 ...)

Thanks for those numbers, novice - assuming that production is applied at the end of the turn then that shows me how many hammers are invested in something at the end of T39 for TEAM.

Using that formula (Hammers = SabotageCost / CityRevoltCost * 650 / 6) I don't get a whole number - it's approx 5.95 hammers. Am I doing something wrong, or is this an artifact of rounding somewhere? If the latter I guess it would be 6 hammers invested in something, but it's either 5 or 6.

And as I'm previewing and editing this I have seen the after TEAM's T40 update from plako. Unfortunately there's a tooltip over one of the needed numbers, plako, but I think that must remain the same each time. Still a non-whole number, but 11 or 12 hammers now. No power changes for TEAM during their turn.

More thoughts on that 6k power increase TEAM had on T38. It doesn't look like horses are near enough to our capitals to let them settle for horses and gain only 3 land tiles first ring. So I don't see that they can have built a chariot. Which leaves us with Archery or a Vulture ... and if Archery we still have the problem of figuring out what they built T38, whereas if it's a Vulture then that accounts for everything.

[pling]

(Note to self: Fixed a problem in my known civ bonus calculations this morning, don't think it change conclusions, just solves a couple of things I was scratching my head over.)

[pling]

Google docs was playing up for me last night so couldn't C&D, ah the joys of working in the cloud

News of the turn: Menagerie got a no soldier point tech. They got Wheel most recently, and I think Agriculture seems plausible here. Although it took them a long time to research (9 turns) so perhaps it was something else. But one out of Pirates & Menagerie has had a GNP of 16 for the last several turns, so perhaps it was them.

[pling]

TEAM now have 13 or 14 hammers invested in something in Pitboss3.

I looked at the demos while grabbing a couple of screenies for exploration pics just now - TEAM have grown their cap to size 4 which accounts for 1k soldiers increase. There's another 3k to account for, Archer perhaps? Which would require Archery to be the 6k power from a couple of turns ago, obviously.

Any other ideas?

The numbers are:

• score increased by 4 = pop increased by 1.
  
• pop on demos increased by 27k = city growth from 3->4.
  
• total population in their cities has gone from 5->6 so soldiers increased by 1k
  
• soldiers increased by 4k total, of which 3k is unaccounted for

[plako]

If they really have teched Archery and are building Archers, I guess they've similar idea as we have settling far towards us. We need a unit to check what is happening between us. Maybe we could send Axe to look things up while building warrior while growing Bloody Mary. Other alternative is to send warrior.

[novice]

They have a second city, is it at size 1? If so, growing to size 4 wouldn't give a power increase, and their power increase from units would be 4k.

EDIT: Never mind, you addressed this.

EDIT2: So if they really got 3k power the only alternative is a barracks.

[pling]

Ah, yeah, Barracks is 3k too. So still no closer to what the hell that 6k power was ...

[plako]

Barracks would be extremely strange too. Could that 6000 have been Archery on T38 (we've put that on Mystisicm now)? That would explain 6000 then and 3000+1000 this turn.

[pling]

Yeah, the problem I'm mostly having is that all the options don't sound like what I'd do or what I've seen other people do in games I've spectated. The consensus as I've picked it up seems to be Archery is a tech that can wait and Barracks are a waste of hammers early in the game. But then everyone also says early warfare is a waste of effort, and that's clearly been TEAM's game plan all along so the "optimal" choices will be different for that sort of strategy. Maybe?

Every time I sit down to logic it out I go round in circles coz I can construct ways for them to've done several different things Basically I can't be sure if it's Archery+Archer or Chariot+Warrior+Barracks or Vulture+Barracks. However, I really don't see why you'd chop a barracks immediately after you chopped some units. So I guess Archery+Archer sounds more sensible by that rationale? I dunno

[zakalwe]

Building an archer is a very natural follow-up to researching archery. After all, if they were NOT intending to build one, why would they want archery?

So maybe archery+archer is the most likely explanation, after all? (If it's actually consistent with the numbers, that is; I haven't double-checked any of that.)