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So....Gandhi of France Anyone? (Leader/Civ Picking Thread)

My pick analyses. I value ORG more than WK, so mine is going to be a little different. Also, not going to discuss player skill below, will cover that later.

Smackdown
Mehmed of Sumer (EXP/ORG, Vulture/Ziggaraut, The Wheel/Agriculture)
Liz of Rome (FIN/PHI, Praet/Forum, Mining/Fishing)

This is my favorite pick by far, and the best imho. You've got a very obvious expander and very obvious supporter, and they both should be good at what they do. ORG obviously goes well with Ziggarauts. Once they hit Priesthood, they can expand relatively unhindered. Each city building an EXP granary and ORG Ziggaraut first, and their cities will get up and running relatively quickly. No real synergy between Rome and Liz, other than the minor combing the Forum and PHI. That will probably boost them in one or two cities, but be negligible otherwise. They clearly picked Rome as the best Mining/Fishing Civ left. Praets are not as good without AGG, but still should form a very effective deterrent to anyone who wants to mess with them. Combined Vulture/Praet stacks could be terrifying, but fortunately I doubt we'll see that this game as it woud be a massive economic drain. The anti-synergy here is not putting FIN on the civ with the most land, but with Darius off the table there was no real way to do that.

Overall Rating: hammerhammerhammerhammerhammer

LAME
Darius of HRE (FIN/ORG, Landsknecht/Rathaus, Mysticism/Hunting)
Joao of England (EXP/IMP, Redcoat/Stock Exchange, Mining/Fishing)

Commodore should be very comfortable playing this pick. lol I'd tie this one in utility with our picks, though ours is significantly more flexible. The plan here is very obvious: Darius spams cities everywhere, growing cottages and managing costs with ORG Rathauses, Joao builds workers and settlers to support him. They're going to significantly handicap Joao and bolster Darius. If they can pull it off, it will be very scary. However, it's going to require a large degree of cooperation to make it work. As for UUs/UBs: LS's are pretty meh, nothing really to note there. Redcoats are in theory amazing, but they never have really shone in an RB game - maybe this will be the one? SE's are late, but solid. They're starting techs absolutely suck, but worth it for Rathauses imho. Overall, this pick is very dependent on teamwork and getting to CoL in one piece. If they do, however, watch out.

Overall Rating: hammerhammerhammerhammer

Real Men of Genius: Reloaded
Huyana Capac of the Maya (Financial/Industrious, Holkan/Ball Court, Mining/Mysticism)
Gandhi of Egypt (Spiritual/Philosophical, War Chariot/Obelisk, Agriculture/The Wheel)

Like I said above, I'd tie us for second with LAME. There is some good stuff here. As one of two IND, we have an advantage going for wonders and obviously have a high motivated to get to MC ASAP. No way anyone rushes us early with Holkans and WCs, and in fact, we should consider spitting out a few WCs to go harass our opponents. Obelisks are actually really good here as they allow us to leverage PHI earlier than normal. With the food bonuses at Start #1 + Obelisks + Gandhi, we should be able to power our early expansion with settled GPs. They'll also aid us to bulbing CoL quickly to unlock Courthouses. We really need to leverage IND into Oracle/Pyramids. To make this work, Gandhi really needs Representation to run a SE and cover our tech costs until Huyana's cottages mature and take over for late-game teching.

Overall Rating: hammerhammerhammerhammer

Team 4H
Bismarck of Native America (EXP/IND, Dog Soldier/Totem Pole, Fishing/Agriculture)
Victoria of Korea (FIN/IMP, Hwach'a/Seowon, Mining/Mysticism)

Nothing screams: I WANT STONEHENGE like Bismarck of NA (though we can still beat them to it if we'd like by virtue of turn order). I like these picks the least. There's some good stuff here - the leaders are overall good - however, I feel like these Civ choices are just sub-par. So, obviously they want SH, and after that...idk. Bismarck I presume will be the 'supporter' - building wonders and workers for Korea - while Victoria expands. I feel like IMP is limited in utility on Immortal though, at least before CoL. Hwaca'as and Dogs are okay UUs, but hardly anything to write home about. Seowons are slightly better, but still are a bit lackluster compared to some of the other options. I think the idea between SH/Totem poles is to be able to spam out 5xp archers for faux-protective and dare anyone to come after them. I'll be very interested to see how these picks play out.

Overall Rating: hammerhammerhammer

With 6 ancient era UUs, early rushes are going to be tempting for the teams here - but consequently may be harder to pull off depending on who you're rushing. I don't think it would behoove Mackseven very much to send Praets against dogs, for example. LAME may be a little at risk here due to their lack of an ancient/classical-era UU facing Praets, Vultures, Dogs, and WCs. We shall see, the map size may prohibit any sort of early military adventure a la PB6.

So, the total picks of each trait?

Financial: 4
Expansive: 3
Organized: 2
Industrious: 2
Imperialistic: 2
Philosophical: 2
Spiritual: 1
Creative: 0
Charismatic: 0
Aggressive: 0
Protective: 0
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Another thing to consider is starting techs. Smackdown have it best missing the relatively useless techs Hunting/Mysticism, having all 4 techs needed for a good start. I'd say we're tied with 4H in 2nd, we're both missing Hunting but we're missing Fishing and they're missing Wheel, Fishing is more important considering the starts but it's cheap while Wheel is the most expensive tech and still fairly crucial to get reasonably early on. Worst is LAME missing Agri/Wheel, HRE has given them a significant handicap for them to overcome by missing the most expensive techs (and both are crucial), they'll be behind in everything early game.

Speaking a little more about our strategy:

(March 4th, 2013, 14:00)oledavy Wrote: Like I said above, I'd tie us for second with LAME. There is some good stuff here. As one of two IND, we have an advantage going for wonders and obviously have a high motivated to get to MC ASAP.

yup We may have to concede HG/MoM unless we rush there or get a 2nd GE, but Gandhi will be able to bulb religious Medieval techs quite easily and there's some good wonders there. I'd highly recommend we aim for the religious wonders with the only SPI civ in the game, everything else we'll have to decide on when we get there.


(March 4th, 2013, 14:00)oledavy Wrote: No way anyone rushes us early with Holkans and WCs, and in fact, we should consider spitting out a few WCs to go harass our opponents.

Nobody will be able to handle WC early at all. LAME may be the best since they start with Hunting but everyone else wants to avoid it for as long as possible.


(March 4th, 2013, 14:00)oledavy Wrote: Obelisks are actually really good here as they allow us to leverage PHI earlier than normal. With the food bonuses at Start #1 + Obelisks + Gandhi, we should be able to power our early expansion with settled GPs. They'll also aid us to bulbing CoL quickly to unlock Courthouses.

We can bulb CoL (I'd recommend it too not just for Courthouses but Caste System too), but to do that we need Theology and to not have Monarchy. Doable though, since Mids + Ball Courts ought to solve happy problems instead of HR and a Prophet bulbs Theology first anyway.

Something to consider, if we have CoL and still avoid Monarchy the next thing a Prophet bulbs is Civil Service (even though I think it only does half the tech, so maybe not). Or we could get GS from Caste for Academy/Philosophy. We might also want a Prophet for a shrine (something that we missed very much last game). All this means I don't think I'll get the chance to settle any GP's early on, and later we'll want them for GA's instead.


(March 4th, 2013, 14:00)oledavy Wrote: We really need to leverage IND into Oracle/Pyramids. To make this work, Gandhi really needs Representation to run a SE and cover our tech costs until Huyana's cottages mature and take over for late-game teching.

yup Rep will be crucial. If Huayna finds Stone maybe we can hand build it but early MC is huge for us anyway. It also leads to Colossus which will be useful on a lakes map, but it's not essential enough to be rushed.

We have to be aware of opponents who may want to beat us to Oracle. 4H probably want Stonehenge instead (although we also have a IND leader and a monument UB so we can bluff SH, I wonder if our choices will make them concede it and go after another wonder?) while LAME will probably be too busy catching up from bad starting techs. Smackdown don't start with Myst, but they can tech that while we catch up from teching fishing and they want Priesthood for Ziggurats anyway (although I find it hard to believe they'd want to build them so early, hence the reason Ziggurats are overrated IMO). Need to keep a close eye on C&D early and watch for religions falling for sure.

Don't forget Ball Courts, +3 happiness is no small bonus. It's the best UB in this game (aside from ORG Courthouses but we have opposite opinions on those so let's ignore them) while the obelisk is arguably the 2nd best. smile
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(March 5th, 2013, 11:05)plako Wrote: Map is starting to be ready. Please put somewhere in your thread clearly visible following information:
* Which leader/nation occupy which starting location
* If you don't want me to assign color please give your preference. In case of duplicates I'll just change the color to something that hopefully is least confusing.

You can also state your preference concerning how the map is gone through lurker inspection. Main alternatives:
1) Lurkers should learn the map while you play i.e. I will reveal it to only the ones who has voluteered as map checkers. REgo was intrested at some point. Anyone else?
2) All lurkers should see the map to get e.g. a better balance checking.

Gandhi of Egypt in Start #1 (Seafood start)
Huyana Capac of Maya on Start #2

I would prefer different colors, though I can't speak for anyone else neenerneener Nobody ever plays Russia or Japan, so red would be a bit out of the ordinary. Black would also be cool, a la Locke & Cervantes in PB4

I'm fine with all of the lurkers seeing the map before hand.

What do you guys think?
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Okay with everything written there.
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(March 5th, 2013, 14:03)superjm Wrote: Okay with everything written there.

Same here. Not much more to add until we know that the starts are finalized.
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Other random note: Anyone have a problem with getting our forum name changed to Real Men of Genius: Reloaded? Or do you guys prefer it the way it is.
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Lastly, any ideas for our main thread name? I was thinking something like:

Spulla Dogpile Thread
Ministry of Silly Walks: Walk Sillier/Harder
Today We Salute You...
Prospectives Thread
Totally NOT Going For A Culture Victory :neenerneener
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Any of the first three.

Also for map maker/lurkers: any idea when we'll have finalized start info? Not trying to rush you guys just want to know when I should plan time to do some simming.
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(March 5th, 2013, 14:00)oledavy Wrote: Gandhi of Egypt in Start #1 (Seafood start)
Huyana Capac of Maya on Start #2

I would prefer different colors, though I can't speak for anyone else neenerneener Nobody ever plays Russia or Japan, so red would be a bit out of the ordinary. Black would also be cool, a la Locke & Cervantes in PB4

I'm fine with all of the lurkers seeing the map before hand.

What do you guys think?

Not a bother from me either.
Travelling on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
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I wouldn't mind being Black (Gandhi), failing that would prefer default colours but really doesn't matter much.

2nd pr 3rd thread name.
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