[PB22-SPOILERS] HAKFlakes...the cereal that will choke you until we win

[Cornflakes]

Oh, and that barracks was giving +2 because I manually added the city + Barracks at T18 rather than building the settler as we did in game ... that means that the barracks. After 1000 years the culture of all buildings doubles (and 1000 years goes by really quickly in the early turns).

[HitAnyKey]

The only way I know how to manipulate food/hammers is to throw down extra resources under the capital for a few turns (e.g. sugar for the extra food/iron for hammers). Don't worry about the cottage turns. Commerce will be off anyway due to known tech bonuses, and we can manually add tech when we get it in game if we are short commerce.

If you do something like this, how do you then remove that resource later? While I was playing around, I accidentally dropped a Lion (don't know how) on the capital. Was going to try erasing it, but I ended up erasing EVERYTHING on the tile (city, warrior, scout, lion, etc)....oops. Good thing it was after I had already made a save of what I had don't previously. Woulda sucked to try to redo any of that.

[HitAnyKey]

Stonehenge was built this turn...and from the score boost, looks like it was plako.

Status update for us. Last turn I had whipped the Warrior out of FL (yes, I know...more stacked unhappy... ) and am now sending it to follow our scout to the NW, so it can try to kill any barb stuffs that might try to hurt our scout.
With the Pasture finishing this turn, I was able to give the Rice back to Cheerios.
FL grows next turn, and I'll likely have it work the cottage (or maybe take the mine from Cheerios). It'll be at happy cap for 5 turns after that. I'm currently building another WB there, which I want to use to explore up the coast to the NW. Maybe find another neighbor. So I'll simply monitor that city so that it doesn't grow again before the whip unhappy wears off. Haven't yet decided if I'll switch off the WB to build a Library in 2 turns once Writing comes in. I might. Currently thinking I'll finish the WB, then start on a Worker (or another Settler) while another whip unhappy wears off.
Cheerios grows in 2 turns, with it's Warrior finishing in 3 turns. It'll then start the Worker. I'll try to play around with the options you listed above to decide which one we use. We have 2-3 turns to decide.

[HitAnyKey]

Soooo.....I made a bit of a misake, but I don't think it hurts us extremely bad. Totally didn't think that FL would go into fear for life unhappy mode this turn. So without noticing that, I moved the warrior it built before NW (away from the city even further). Then I noticed the city. Seeing that it had a wasted unhappy citizen (and it would take 2 more turns to get the warrior back) I tried to think what I could do to remedy the situation without having those 2 wasted citizen turns. I thought to myself that I could whip out a Warrior for 1 pop so that next turn the MP would be in the city and it could grow. So I did that. Then realized that yes, he would be there for offsetting the unprotected city unhappy, but he wouldn't be able to offset the added whip unhappy that I created.
So I played around with the tiles, and have the city working the two cottages for this turn (so it doesn't grow). It'll complete the warrior that I whipped. Next turn, I'll start a Worker so the city can go back to working the Pigs & Fish, and slowbuild that for the next 6 turns. By the time the worker is done, the first whip unhappy will have worn off and I can have the city grow again. Then I just need to monitor the unhappy and let them slowly wear off, alternating between building workers and buildings until we have enough whip unhappy gone. Basically, FL won't be whipping anything again for a very long time.

Cheerios at least, is ok. It'll grow next turn, and either we let the warrior finish building the turn after that before starting the worker, or we start the worker right away. I'll try to play with that in the sandbox (which I've had to make more modifiations to try to get it closer to mirroring the real game. Hopefully I can play around with those worker options before I have to actually make the decision of which route to go.
I'll either post some screenshots later, or you can just log in to see what a mess I made of FL yourself.
Or I'll just wait until next turn to post screenshots.

[HitAnyKey]

A) grow up to size 6, build worker, grow to size 7/8 and 3-pop whip settler.
B) grow to size 6, put 1-turn into worker, 7th pop is unhappy but grow it and immediately whip off 2 for the worker using the overflow to finish your warrior. Put a turn into Settler then grow back to 7 and whip it
c) grow to size 6, put 1-turn (10 hammers!) into Settler, grow 7th pop and immediately whip off 3 for settler. We will be OK at the Horse city without worker support for a few turns, but I think (B) worker first is better because we can get the roads in place to get the settler to the city site in 1-turn.

I've realized I don't have any good way to actually test this, since I can't get the food/hammer details of Cheerios to match exactly what's in the real game right now. So I think I'm just going to have to pick one of the options (likely A or B) when the time comes.
Since I played around with the sandbox multiple times already, it's now kinda screwed up. And I don't want to go back to the original version you had, since it did have a few errors I had tried to fix. So I have to play it through a couple turns at the same time the actual turns are going (to check numbers) to try to get things back in sync.
If only there were a way to edit the production and food stores that a city has in WB, then I could make things work. But since you can't, I have to find a way to manipulate a tile being worked over the course of a few turns to get things back in sync. So far in my current version I've put a turn with the Oasis having a Pig pasture, and there being copper under the mine. But need at least one more turn of manipulating tiles to get things to work. But need to see what the numbers in real game will be next turn to try again. Since I don't know how to determine how much food will be in the food store next turn after Cheerios grows.

[HitAnyKey]

Next thoughts....Techs.
We get Writing next turn. Trying to decide where to go next. I'm tempted (as I usually am) to try for some sort of Wonder. We could go Sailing next, then Masonry. And build TGL.
Or we could go straight Masonry, and build The Great Wall. I know most people think it's useless and most don't build it (which is why we would also have a good shot at getting it). But with this map, keeping Barbs out of our territory without much need to police for them, could be a good thing. Also getting a Great Spy would allow us to explore our neighbors without open borders. Since we don't have Stone near us, I doubt we should even make an attempt at the Pyramids.
Other tech option is to go straight for Math after Writing. Doesn't lead us towards any wonders, but does get us better chops. I've never gone straight for Math, leaving as much else unresearched as we currently have.

On the topic of Writing....what are your thoughts on as soon as we get it seeing if Gavagai, GermanJojo, and/or mackoti would want to trade maps? They might decline, but are there any you think we should offer it to? I'm leaning most towards Gavagai, since he's the first one we met...so I'd like to know exactly where all his cities are. Same with mackoti. Those are also the two who I fear the most.

[Ichabod]

The only way I know how to manipulate food/hammers is to throw down extra resources under the capital for a few turns (e.g. sugar for the extra food/iron for hammers). Don't worry about the cottage turns. Commerce will be off anyway due to known tech bonuses, and we can manually add tech when we get it in game if we are short commerce.

If you do something like this, how do you then remove that resource later? While I was playing around, I accidentally dropped a Lion (don't know how) on the capital. Was going to try erasing it, but I ended up erasing EVERYTHING on the tile (city, warrior, scout, lion, etc)....oops. Good thing it was after I had already made a save of what I had don't previously. Woulda sucked to try to redo any of that.

When you want to remove something in WB, you have to go on the proper WB tab, select the appropriate resource/unit/feature, and right click the tile (for example, if you want to remove a forest, you have to select a forest on the map tab and right click the one you want to get rid of).

I'm not sure if there's a way to select what unit to delete first from a stack of units. Each click will remove one.

About the lion, when you enter the "player" tab of the WB, the thing that is automatically selected is a lion for the humar player. That's why is easy to misclick lions on the map. And, at least for me, when I alt + tab out of Civ 4 with WB open, when I come back to the game, it defaults to the player tab of WB, even if I was in the map tab before. So, sometimes I alt + tab to see a screenshot while editing a map and, when I come back, I place lions instead of forests/water/grasslands that I had selecte before.

Hope this is not too confusing, explaining technical things that I don't understand that much myself while not using my first language isn't my strongest point.

[Ichabod]

Since I don't know how to determine how much food will be in the food store next turn after Cheerios grows.

Here's a bit of help, from how I think it works:

*If the city doesn't have a granary, when you grow, you'll have the food that you invested on the previous turn that surpasses what you needed to grow. So, if your city was at 14/20 and you put 8 food on a turn, that'll put the city in 22/20, which means it'll grow to the next size with an extra 2 food. So, the city will be 2/22 on the next size.

*When the city has a granary, you get the food "stored" in the granary + the food that surpasses the limit. The food stored in the granary can be at most half the food needed to grow to the next size. So, if you need 20 food to grow to the next size, once the city grows, it can have at most 10 food bonus from the granary. If it needed 22, you get 11. If it needed 25, you get 12 (it's rounded down). So, in the same example as before, if your city was at 14/20 and you put 8 food on a turn, it'll be at 12/22 food once it grows (the same 2 food overflow + 10 food from the granary).

There's one case that is more complicated: the granary may not give the whole food bonus the first time your city grows after the granary is done. That's because you need to "store" the food before getting the bonus. So, if you finish the granary at 15/20 and put 5 food in it next turn, the city won't grow to have 10/22 next turn, but only 5/22 (because you only worked 5 food after completing the granary, which means only 5 food was stored).

Hopefully this helps a bit, even if it is not very well presented.

[HitAnyKey]

Thanks Ichabod. Both of those posts were helpful.

Now back to the game...sucky thing happened. Had moved the scout onto a nice protective forested hill....right next to a friggin Bear!! So the scout died this turn.
All that work building the scout to send up that way, only to have him die before he even finds anything new. The warrior is going to keep going that way to kill the animals and uncover some fog.
I also offered a map trade with Gavagai. Decided to choose him first, and see if he accepts it or not.
Then I'll decide if I want to trade with either GJ or mackoti.
Right now both cities are building Workers since neither can grow yet.

[HitAnyKey]

So Gavagai accepted my map trade, so I now see what his lands are like...and they are awesome compared to mine. So this will be interesting. Also the fact that he's only really explored my direction. And to his SE is Jungle, so his best options for expanding appear to be towards me. He currently went NE, but that could be because he's going towards that Stone near him. His Copper is towards me, with an awesome city he can plant at that chokepoint to get it and a bunch of other resources. If he has Iron nearby I could be in trouble at some point, depending on my iron is. But for now, us getting the horses will have to do.
I am surprised I didn't get more uncovered tiles from that trade. I'm thinking maybe his scout might have died or something. Either that or he did a lot of backtracking, or exploring the same lands that I explored.








The new stuff I get to see is where he must have sent his scout to my NE, up that strange skinny strip of land. That's also where mackoti may have come from.
Now I have to decide if I want to attempt to trade maps with mackoti and/or GJ. Your thoughts?

The distance between us is a nice thing to see. Gives us plenty of time to expand, since I don't see him wanting to do any sort of early rush. Even if he gets Iron quickly before us, he won't really be able to do much for awhile. And our chariots should still be able to fend them off well enough, even though they're better against axes.