Yes this or AP resolution.
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[Spoilers] This Perfect Place
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 (May 4th, 2016, 09:34)OT4E Wrote: Yes this or AP resolution. Thanks, good to know.  So Gawdzak does have another settler down here. I'm thinking that Gawdzak is using the peace between us as an opportunity to grab a lot of land, but I think he might end up being stretched pretty thin, especially on worker labour. For example, those horses by Ecbatana were only just hooked up last turn, by one worker that had been there for the full 4 turns. He has 1 worker by this settler, 1 worker by Gordium, the city on the gems, and 2 workers by the city he planted up by me last turn. All of these spots are going to need a lot of worker-turns before becoming useful. Whereas I haven't founded any cities without at least 2 or 3 workers already there ready to improve, and often with the ability for my new cities to borrow improved tiles from old cities. I understand why he's doing it, CRE is good at claiming land, but it still needs cities to be founded, but I wonder if his economy can take it. I planted a city of my own this turn, no screenshot now, I'll put one up next time I go over all my cities. The move on Fondue is proceeding apace.  I'll have 2 axes on that galley next turn on the tile 2N1E of the galley's current position, and I'll move that warrior back on to the hill to see what's what, with those two chariots there serving a dual purpose. The first is in case Adrien still has the galley inside Fondue, and uses it to kill that warrior with an axe, the chariots are there to kill the axe. The second is in case I do go for the city, and my galley can pick those chariots up to finish the job/reinforce. The other galley being built in Wild Child is there to ensure I have local control of the seas, in case Adrien gets lucky and kills my galley with his own. I've done a lot of shuffling of tiles around this turn, and my worker labour is stretched to the limit, but I think that I'll be able to maximize growth in my cities, without having to work unimproved tiles, although I will be forced to work a lighthouse coast tile in Aniron in 2 turns. Which is annoying. Seeing Gawdzak's settler down south made me want to hurry another of my own out, but I realised that right now what I really need are workers, and there are 5 forests around my newest city. 2 of them will be used for a WB and granary, but the overflow from that and the other forests will go into a couple of workers.  So Gawdzak settled here, pushing my chariot 1 tile to the NW, which is good actually, cause I wanted to go there anyway. I kinda expecting him to settle on the coast though, but I guess he wanted to gems in the bfc? Or he's thinking way into the future and wants to put a couple of forts to canal across there.
Firstly, here's a "world" map I've put together:
 I'm assuming that Gawdzak has another neighbor to the SW corner of that map, if not, then he has a LOT of land to expand in to, and would have had even more had I not settled south so aggressively. Also note the iron under the capitals. Gawdzak is starting his run for maths, while I'm saving cash. If he goes for Construction after Maths, I'll get HBR and build up a bunch of HA's. If he doesn't, maybe goes for IW to deal with all that jungle for example, I'll get Maths next myself. Now, to the impending war with Adrien/Mardoc:  He has a worker on the pigs, which is worth stealing all on its own, and he does have the galley in the city, probably leaving it there after ferrying the worker. Hopefully, he'll take the bait and kill my warrior with the axe. I can then kill the axe with my chariots, and land 2 axes of my own on the pigs tile. Since it's unlikely the city will have grown by then, I'll probably end up burning it. If he doesn't take the bait, I'll wait another couple of turns for the second galley to come out, so I can land both axes and chariots on the island. Dreylin has been whipping a lot lately, which at the very least will make Adrien/Mardoc nervous, and therefore less likely to reinforce that city. At best it means that Dreylin and Adrien/Mardoc will be at war soon, which would be even better. I doubt he'll go for the warrior, but you never know.
Met BGN this turn, after he had taken that city of BRick's:
 They signed peace this turn:  Up by Fondue, Adrien/Mardoc did not take the bait, and the galley has moved off somewhere.  I had a  moment of panic here thinking that their galley could be 2 NE of my own, and potentially kill it this turn, so I offloaded the axes while I wait for the other galley and the chariots to turn up. Of course, I realised shortly after that there was ocean 1NE of my galley, and I picked that spot to stage my galley in precisely because it can't be seen by them. It shouldn't matter, I'm still going to wait a couple of turns for the chariots to arrive now, hopefully giving the city time to grow, so I get to keep it.Three cities grew last turn, so here's a city overview dump:
Only two things worth reporting on this turn.
First, attack on Fondue is ready to proceed next turn:  There is no galley within striking range of mine, and that workboat just arrived, and the pasture finishes just in time. The city wont grow in time for me to take it, but that's fine. I'll still end up with the worker, and I'll have sent the message that I consider that island to be my territory. Secondly, stuff to the south around BGN:  There's the potential that BGN decides to kill that chariot. I moved it while still in the mindset I got from scouting around Gawdzak during enforeced peace. But, I'm hoping that BGN will see in me an ally against Gawdzak, as I just noticed something interesting this turn:  They had been at war within the last ten turns. So all my suspicions that Gawdzak wasn't focusing all of his military attention on me were correct. And since BGN can see that I too was at war with Gawdzak, I doubt he'd risk making a new enemy by killing a scouting chariot. Here's a demo's shot with me at 100% science: 
I have a question about turn splits (again). So I am planning on attacking Adrien/Mardoc next turn. I want to have the first half of the turn timer, so I can capture that worker. So far, they have been playing after me every turn since they founded Fondue. I don't know if this it to try and keep me from getting the second half if I attack or just coincidence or if in fact they are in a turn split with someone else (Does a three way turn split need to be set up?). But what if I wanted to go in the second half of the turn. As far as I know, if I'm the one who chooses to attack them, I can take the second half. Of course, if they are deliberately playing after me, the only way to do that would be to set it up via communication, which spoils the surprise factor.
Furthermore, what if this turn Adrien/Mardoc play last, roll the turn, and play immediately, moving that worker? Would that be considered a double move? They don't, AFAIK (and hope), know that this is coming, so how could they know that going before me here would be a double move? How do things normally happen in situations like this, when the defenders do not know that they are defenders until the attack, and in order to maintain surprise you can't organise a turn-split beforehand. And if they are deliberately waiting until after I play to deny me the second half, how am I to know that? (FYI, I'm assuming that this isn't the case, and there's other reasons they are always playing after me lately.) Should I wait for them to play their turn, then message them to set up the turn split? They'll be able to change builds, potentially whip, but not move units. Or should I just continue to operate as though they'll play after me, as they have been doing, and not message them?
Well, no-one answered, and they did play before me, moving that worker. From where I'm looking, although it technically was a double move, as long as they didn't know about the attack I can't exactly complain, and I didn't set up a turn split, I can't exactly complain. So I'm just going to play my turn out normally.
But for future reference, could someone, anyone tell me what is the correct/established way to do this. Honestly, this sort of stuff isn't written down anywhere, and I don't have the time to read through every spoiler thread from the last few years of pitbosses, so if no-one bothers to tell new players like me about this, it puts us at a huge disadvantage, and sets us up to make mistakes.
May 7th, 2016, 17:38
(This post was last modified: May 7th, 2016, 17:44 by GermanJoey.)
 (May 7th, 2016, 15:39)Mr. Cairo Wrote: Well, no-one answered, and they did play before me, moving that worker. From where I'm looking, although it technically was a double move, as long as they didn't know about the attack I can't exactly complain, and I didn't set up a turn split, I can't exactly complain. So I'm just going to play my turn out normally. the correct thing to do is play when you can rather than trying to game the timer to "choose" a side of the turnsplit, with the caveat that its the responsibility of the attacker not to double move the defender. so, yes, the defender is absolutely allowed to "double move" if he's doesn't know that you're thinking about declaring war. this can be really bad luck for the attacker sometimes, but dems the breaks. trying to message them after they played one turn but not the next, without actually doing the wardec, would definitely be bullshit. there could be a rare chance it would be ok, e.g. if it was to avoid a three- or four-way timer or something, assuming that it involved wars on different fronts and you involved the game admin, or if you wanted to resume a turnsplit as before when a 10T peace treaty was about to expire, assuming you set it up a few turns beforehand. this doesn't seem like one of those rare situations, though. (May 7th, 2016, 17:38)GermanJoey Wrote: the correct thing to do is play when you can rather than trying to game the timer to "choose" a side of the turnsplit, with the caveat that its the responsibility of the attacker not to double move the defender. so, yes, the defender is absolutely allowed to "double move" if he's doesn't know that you're thinking about declaring war. this can be really bad luck for the attacker sometimes, but dems the breaks. Thanks a lot for that, I appreciate it. I've read a number of pitbosses here on RB, but since this is stuff that most people here already have an understanding about, it never is explained clearly, so I only pick up little bits here and there, thus the vague idea that messaging to set up a turn split is something that happens. But that appears to be only for special occasions. I also have the vague impression that when you are going to attack someone it is preferable to start playing after (or before) the target in advance of the actual declaration, so that there can be no double-moving by either side on the turn of the declaration. Of course, what I'm realising is how that can be difficult to do without compromising the "play when you can" concept. We (the players) are spread all over the world, in different time-zones, with different daily schedules, and in the case of Adrien/Mardoc, more than one person who can play the turns for one civ. It was easier with Gawdzak, since we both knew that war was coming (on both occasions), and it was quite easy to maintain the split. In this case, it's a surprise attack that they are unaware of, so they can't know that a turn split will be necessary in the future, and plan accordingly. From now on I'm going to play according to the following principles: 1. Don't game the timer. 2. Attacker decides which half in the act of actually declaring war, not beforehand. I can have the intention of taking the first half when I declare, but if they play before me, tough luck. 3. If the first two results in the defender "double-moving" the attacker without realising it, tough luck. 4. Stop asking the lurkers about these vague, uncodified, and (mostly) unwritten rules, and just go with what seems to be the best, and most non-dickish, option, even if that means things don't always happen how I might want them to happen. On to the turn: Dreylin offered me open borders, which I accepted. With 7 cities each (assuming I'm the only one he offered it to) that equates to a 14 commerce increase for both of us, enough to put me in first place for GNP:  Regarding the attack on Fondue. Since that worker is no longer available, I've decided to go for the bigger prize taking the city itself, not just burning it. According to my maths, it will grow between next turn and the turn after that. EDIT: My maths were for epic speed (for some reason) so... I will still attack in 2 turns, but I should have attacked last turn.In domestic affairs, my library is done in Wild Child, and 2 scientists hired:  And tile shuffling has resulted in an Anywhere Is producing 21 hammers a turn, enough to finish this settler in 3 turns, and following settlers in 5 turns each:  With no war imminent with Gawdzak, and my other cities making units at a decent rate, I've decided that this is what AI will do for the next 10-15 turns. It's a steady rate of settlers, doesn't require whipping, and gives my workers time to clear jungle and improve tiles in between city foundings. |
