WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Jkaen]

Sorry I skipped most of day 3, often difficult for me to get much access over the weekend. Back in work now, so will catch up on eerything I missed

[Lewwyn]

I'm getting village reads on enough people that it's getting hard to fit six wolf suspects.

Something like
Thestick, Lewwyn, Ichabod, Rowain/Qgqqq, Azza/Tasunke, Selrach/Molach/Arromir would work though.

If we have a protector he should protect Uberfish.

So I'm guessing I'm your #1 suspect now?

[Injera]

This is a good point and I'm actually not sure you've made it before.

The people who could have switched with stick to save thestick along with a thestick vote: Pindicator, Meiz, Selrahc, Qg, Azza, Gaspar, waterbat

Gaspar had a "late vote" and waterbat said he was busy.

[novice]

So I'm guessing I'm your #1 suspect now?

Maybe. I'm sure you've answered this, but why did you vote Bigger on day 1 and leave without any further comment?

[Meiz]

Meiz, is your PR gone?

@#!!!

What was this about, Meiz?

Was not feeling confident on Merovech lynch, especially as the day had felt "lazy". Ultimately yours and uberfishes strong reactions to the claim swayed me over. Waterbat's similiar attempts were not that encouraging for some reason... I agree the claimed role was odd, but kept thinking that wolves would have came up with a better fake claim.

Also, I didn't understand your answer here, Meiz.

I tried to signal that mentioning Ichabod's emotional play style did not relate to his scummyness/villageriness, bu tthe point was Injera's over-reaction to Ichabod's accusations (more on this later)

Meiz, why vote at deadline-1minute, but not stick around to talk a bit without being restricted?

Deadline is middle of the night for me. Usually I'm trying to stick to the end, but after the votes are set, I'd rather go to sleep than wait for BRick's death post. I was also unsure if I'd have to wait for BRick's confirmation that the PR is gone.

I'm really puzzled why I was restricted, as I had been mostly busy. First thought was that I was onto something. But the world might not turn around me and my theories, wolves could just try to confuse village. Second thought, is the restrictor even a wolf? Has picked people who were not in real danger of being lynched. Novice is quite creative quoter and has done that before. Then again if he would be forced to use the restrictions, there could have been better pro-villager moves for it. It was actually quite a relief to not have much pressure to post :D. Time to catch up the thread and collect thoughts. Started to feel like certain people were using too much time on decrypting the messages anyways, so in the end decided to keep it simple. Restriction was: Can only post using words Lobster, Fork, Bananas + votes + symbols (fortunately numbers as well). Quite paralyzing, wasn't creative enough to put out clear messages.

[Meiz]

Actually, if the restrictor could choose the words, there's no way he's villager...

[Lewwyn]

Maybe. I'm sure you've answered this, but why did you vote Bigger on day 1 and leave without any further comment?

Pretty simply, I went into the game thinking I'd vote for Bigger Day 1.

[Meiz]

Written yesterday:

I felt like Ichabod misreading gave a big village lean on him.

Regarding the post you quoted, it's interesting to notice that one of his defenses is against a post made by thestick. In my eyes, that points more to villager, but with the usual observations.

and

I made a big mistake. Meiz wasn't defending against thestick in that post. The post from thestick quoted by Meiz was actually an attack of some sorts that thestick made on Jkaen (Meiz had previously voted for Jkaen, while Jkaen voted for Meiz). So, take that back, thestick never attacked Meiz (which is what I said previously).

He's a creative guy, but not sure if he'd have the idea to fake something like this as a wolf.

Initial reaction to Pindicators hard work of going throught every post: seems villagerish. Sure, wolf could use something like this, but I still have to wonder if they would bother.
I guess they could, being near the lynch on day 2, so I am not going to declare him villager based on this. Felt like there were better targets for the day.

I dont' like that post (besides the obvious reasons) because everything he writes is already slanted to support his conclusion. He's not writing to review, he's writing to lynch me. As he admits at the end, he has "wolf glasses" on, but this isn't digging, it's throwing dirt.

The idea was to look for clues that would go against you being wolf. I did not find any. So yes, it was done with wolf glasses on by purpose.


Still, I felt like waterbat or Injera would be better targets for the day.

Injera:

Felt odd to read this, http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....count=1282
Why would you protest getting village lean from someone? I think to gain villager credits.
Generally felt like he was buddying up without any concrete reason.
(the comment was related to this post: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=982)


I did not understand the strong reactions against Ichabod.
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....count=1442
(end of post)
and http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....count=1466
IMO there was no reason to get upset. But Ichabod is an emotional player, knowing that he'd upset someone could get him to doubt his vote. And I think Injera knows this quite well.
Sure, you can get upset, but in this case it seemed "forced" or even tactical.

Some his votes have felt really strange.

It's of course very possible that Thestick is a villager, and if so it sucks getting jumped on for your first post. In fact it sucks regardless of alignment. But it's part of the game.

Of course. "All in the game" as Omar said, "novice[/color ]."

if you think he's innocent, why don't you hop on thestick train to save him?
All the cool kids are doing it

Safety in numbers, right?

[color=red]Bigger[/color ]

Explained afterwards in here, http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=277

Sure, villager-Injera would want to save thestick as well, but ultimately thestick was a wolf and I cannot help but to find these suspicious.

Votes Ichabod, http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=774
Explanation, http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=963
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=969

I think the vote came out of nowhere, especially as they had shared similiar views on Gaspar earlier. I'd think you'd have to had a bit better case, before turning
against the guy who shares one of his suspects.
Explained more on the next day: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...post295990

Also I think it's highly unlikely that Injera is scum partners with catwalk because generally on d1 if scum are defending people and one of the people they're defending is scum, they will try and defend a town in the same way for cover.

Good point.


Waterbat:

Early vote of thestick, backed away as soon as it gained little traction. Didn't press thestick afterwards (?). Generally no village vibes. Seemed to misunderstand my point. Jkaens misunderstanding made people think him villager, so...

It felt really strange how he kept sticking to minor detail of my attack, his thestick vote being the second vote when I said it was practically third, as novice had given clear intentions.

"Did you find Meiz suspicious too, Tas?" etc. for discrediting it.
(http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=641)
(http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=657)

Thestick vote was switched to Injera btw. Reason "Preferring novice as mayor??"
I'd say he can be quite safe that no-one follows. Sure, he later claims he was following Gaspar's argument. Would be good to mention that during the vote and not afterwards.
What was so suspicious with voting novice as mayor?

I still see this as trying to get people change votes from thestick:

Bigger said thestick wouldn't be one to disappear, but he did that last game after the first day of attracting a lot of heat, he fell off the map day 2.

"He's just being the village himself"

Later posts http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=252

Well, mattimeos comments seem exactly something I would write as an innocent. then i would not understand why I was getting pounced on. I'm not defending him though, I just am open to the idea that his comments could go either way.

This game should get more interesting as time goes on. For now, it's a snore-fest .

Mattimeo claims his role _6 minutes_ afterwards, but there is no comments from Waterbat afterwards, he simply disappears.

Rushes to post this:

asdlkjfhasdlkjfh!! back too late!

i had typed up this from an hour or so ago - but so much has happened since then... from a quick overview i was conviced by both sareln and pindicator and have no idea of the tally - I will just not vote as intended in bold below.



ok well, I *really* want to get my vote on a wolf today, but don't have the time before deadline to re-review.

I think we must have several good candidates up - the voting yesterday and earlier today was pretty quick moving. I don't think the mafia had time to plan out what went down and agree we might be giving them too much credit for their actions at the end.

At this point, I think Sareln, Mero, uber, pindicator are all fine places to start. I understand the case against Ichabod from a pure "reads-as-wolf" perspective, but don't understand why we would go there and avoid the events just prior to the deadline.

It does look like a vote on pindicator may have the most effect - just 1.3 hours until deadline.

Also it looks like the mayor vote actually has come to the point where votes matter instead of being a landslide

[color=cyan]Llewyn

Why was it so important to get it out before deadline? Maybe to say this?
"from a quick overview i was conviced by both sareln and pindicator" - Clean hands, no matter who bites it?

"ok well, I *really* want to get my vote on a wolf today, but don't have the time before deadline to re-review."
This is talking to himself. What's the point of that?

Misspelling Llewyn.

Maybe it's just me, but it looks faked. "Oh that silly harmless Waterbat"

It would be quite low odds for me to roll wolf with injera 3/4 games, - I would calculate it if there wasn't the fact I am innocent this game - so 0% odds.

Oki, thanks for that... :D

Not sure how I am linked to Injera. I did vote for him a bit back as I just didn't like the content of his posts.

There is no 100% link for you two. I suspect both of you, so I'm also going to be looking for the possible links. I think the link is your half-hearted suspicion of
him and not following through with it. And here's another:

Waterbat's big list of suspects, http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...post294111
From the same post:

Injera: Seemed like Injera the wolf to me. Perhaps I've played with him as wolf-buddy one time too many and just am colored by it.

with the limited info above, if I'd have to pick 5 more wolves, it would be:

uberfish
pindicator
Qgqqqqq
Arromir

not sure of the 5th....

Rowain (although I think Rowain and pindicator are mutually exclusive for mafia, so if pindicator flips town, i'd put rowain up on my list in his place)

or

Molach

So why Injera is not on his wolf team list, even as an alternative candidate? Votes uberfish instead.
Explanation: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=680

My theory: Injera shocked how obviously waterbat left him out of the "wolf team" list and quickly points it out. And waterbat tries to fix the problem with: "no no, I wasn't suspecting you after all"

[Meiz]

@Selrahc, I know how hard (impossible even) it's to follow this game just with mobile. Still, when getting a chance I'd use it to posts my thought on suspects, even when being more on the gut feeling. I think you'r concentrating on the wrong things, or just following the leading candidate (like catwalk yeasterday).

Second up, Meiz. Now I know Meiz caught a lot of heat last game for being alive despite always dying and then had anything but his best game, but the Meiz I know usually has really good insights, posts with lots of links I never click and nobody follows him if zakalwe isn't around to champion his cause. Actually, the part I found most odd was that he didn't get on thestick bandwagon with novice and zakalwe. I think we can find the number of times where he didn't agree with those two when they were so sure to be extraordinarily small. So what gives, there?

I recall thinking (and I really should learn to take notes when I read these threads - I'd be like 100x the WW player if I wasn't so lazy) when reading day one that Meiz was all over Jkaen. But as I reread right now, really, he's just defending or saying nothing. Check out his lone Meiz-ish post from day one, here. Its basically nothing but defense. That just seems very un-Meizish for a player who is normally not so defensive.

Day two is mostly some quick hit reads and lands on pindicator. I know he's busy (rearing its ugly head again) but I'd expect a bit more piss and vinegar from him. I guess I don't really have a smoking gun and quoting all of his blase scum-hunting isn't worth the trouble but I just don't like what we've seen so far... feels like a muted version of usual Meiz.

Nice description Closer to the truth:

[*]On Meiz: To say that he follows zak and novice is overstating. To say that he frequently jumps in bed with them is more accurate.

I did not find the case against thestick that convincing and thought I had a better lead, simple as that. I wish I'd have jumped in, but that doesn't help at this point. For the other accusations, I know being busy is not a good defense, but it is what it is...

Ok. Firstly I don't think the fact that he's defending against a thestick post means anything at all - thestick's play was so... half-hearted I think he's just as likely to have attacked a wolf as a villager.

And thestick did not even attack me . Ichabod corrected this, http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....count=1214
No comments, Gaspar?

[Lewwyn]

Novice why are you so sure Catwalk is innocent?