[SPOILERS] Willem of Portugal (Dantski + Mukha)

[Mukha]

Have to vote no really. Not entirely sure how AP/UN mechanics works but Ruff told me a No vote will cancel my current deals but I can just resign them next turn. A Never/defy resolution vote will add unhappy to our capital (our only Hindu city) if the resolution would pass otherwise.

Also it's annoying that I have to make a choice now, is there any way of postponing my vote? Can't even access main menu until I vote it seems.

Wish I could have seen this before voting, could have either abstained or voted yes as Carthage and Egypt are the only deciding members.

[Dantski]

for those of you who don't know, Mukha is currently not involved anymore but I hope he comes back soon

I mention this because of the situation that has arisen with Krill over my new city placement.

Now Mukha and Krill agreed on border city placements over a gmail chat. Muk informed me of where our city would go and where a southern Krill city would go.

Now my interest in this game wasn't particularly high so Mukha handled 99% of the diplo and occasionally mentioned important things. Unfortunately he forgot to mention one other city site he agreed to with Krill. Also he didn't really have time to go through everything before he left.

Now I've settled somewhere. completely unaware that it violates the border treaty they agreed on. Krill is naturally unhappy about this and so am I. However considering I didn't know an agreement on this part of the land existed I am unwilling to just let him or barbs freely raze the city when I have spent considerable hammers + workers turns + military to get this far.

I have repeatedly tried to engage Krill on discussing how to solve the issue and he's offered absolutely jack (read more later) towards getting it sorted out.

Finally today we made some progress (nothing nailed down yet) and Krill showed me a map of him possibly getting an alternative site which I was happy to agree with. I was very surprised that he blatantly resorted to personal insults beforehand though. He also revealed he had contacted others (or possibly just lurkers) over this and frankly it sounds like he is twisting this for all he's worth.



Normally I wouldn't bother posting this buti t seems like someone is genuinely attacking my integrity and I find that to be a complete and utter joke and on top of that its EXTREMELY insulting.

I will also post an explanation for anyone who cares about what happened in PB2, because I don't want a reputation for being untrustworthy when I know I am anything but.

[Dantski]

ARGH! More disputes!


Lot of text but worth reading IMO

DIM: dantski?
Sent at 10:55 PM on Saturday
me: yep im here
hiii
DIM: hi there
me: had a chance to look over my email?
DIM: yes
couple of points
me: point away
DIM: concerning the gold: if it is the resource you want, I have an extra, and would be willing to provide it for the rest of the game
concerning England
you are correct that england would probably attack you should you found the spot
me: ran into a few of their units
DIM: that is what I mentioned to Mukha when we first discussed
me: theres not really
a closer place to settle on this path
DIM: England and I have a sort of understanding, where, even if we're on opposing side, we agree not to attack each other around our homelands
when we killed off France, we divided the lands equally
I cannot found two tiles south of the gold spot
me: where can you found?
im surprised england hasn't destroyed the barb city in that area yet
DIM: where exactly?
is the barb city
me: umm
not ingame so this is a bit of a guess
around 2-3S 1E of the silver
DIM: ah I thought you meant another barb city
me: nope
umm busy for 10 mins sorry
somethings up
DIM: np
Sent at 11:05 PM on Saturday
me: sorry about that
now where were we?
you were about to cede a few cities and some gold right?
Sent at 11:41 PM on Saturday
DIM: exactly
me: so anyway
i really really want a city down there
DIM: i believe we are at an impasse
me: so you have an agreed border with england
care to tell me where?
DIM: and i already mentioned this to mulha
me: unfortunately i am pretty much totally unaware of any previous chats
DIM: my destined city spot runs right north of the divide
Sent at 11:52 PM on Saturday
DIM: is there a way I could make up the lost worker turns?
me: hmm
a gift of 2 workers or a settler may be an option
DIM: what timeframe, assuming we're talking workers?
me: 10 turns to be inside CBE borders
15 at most
id also hold you to your gold gift offer
DIM: you mean the resource right?
me: yep
at the moment
someone is gifting us some, but would really like our own source for when alliance shifts happen
assuming this game is somewhat similar to pb1
DIM: i can probably manage first worker in 10 turns
me: 1 in 10 2nd in 15 is fine
naturally id like them asap
DIM: second one might be a bit hard to get before 20
but I'll do my best
me: by the way
did 2S of the gold
DIM: is there a road leading to your lands?
me: interfere with an english proposed city's BFC?
yes theres one close to my axe
DIM: not a city as such
we went all imperialism and divided french lands with a ruler (using a map france sent to us
me: well we were a french neighbour too
but not getting much of it
DIM: ah you were banging heads with rome
i was wanting to ask
was there a specific reason you attacked them?
sandover can be... a bit harsh diplomatically
me: umm there were many reasons
chiefly that we were damn close to them, they were difficult diplomatically
and so it ended up being
its let them get praets or hit them first
DIM: i can see the logic in that
me: incidentally we lost 7 chariots to kill 1 spear
DIM: yeah mukha told me
me: we simmed it 20 times
and was never that bad
DIM: incidently
should we have not come to an agreement
I would have hit your new city with 6 2-movers next turn
me: thats nice
i have 3 pikes to put in city
and 2 knights
DIM: ah next turn?
me: yup
DIM: well that would have been then
me: guess that road was just out of sight
DIM: *bad
me: but id still like a city there
i reeeeally would
DIM: well, claim englands part
take that barb city
me: too isolated for my liking
Sent at 12:06 AM on Sunday
DIM: you were going to say something else?
me: yeah
DIM: nice moves in PB2 btw
me: gimmegimmegimme
yeah its not too odd to be disagreeing with HRE
DIM: i wish this were a no tech trading game
me: has its downsides
DIM: or no trading a tech more than 4 times
this bloated alliance thing is getting to me
me: heh yeah


mukha was doing all the diplo
now i have to!
DIM: lol
me: but
is there no way you can settle for the plains sheep
and let me have the grass one
DIM: sorry dantski
a deal is a deal

me: technically this spot is closer to my capital than yours
DIM: do you know why?
me: yeah but a deal that didn't involve me!
DIM: we just made a deal

me: we did? when?
DIM: just now
me: ahh you're actually gifting me cities?
awesome
DIM: nice one
me: but no i dont consider things a 'deal' until we've got email confirmation from both sides
this is just speculation
DIM: ah you're going to play it that way
me: wll im trying to negotiate the area
but you agreed on the settling with someone else
when we had a legitamate claim too
oh god the spelling
DIM: no i had a deal with mukha AND england
me: uhh
mukha told me he was in negotiations but nothing concrete
can you email this agreement?
Sent at 12:16 AM on Sunday
DIM: i told him the spot was not negotiable, and in the end he accepted
Sent at 12:17 AM on Sunday
me: having a look at past chats sec
DIM: and if you want to know why i'm founding that far east from the capital
you should have a look at the lands directly east from the capital
dry plains as far as the eye can see
we haven't all been blessed with our lands
me: hey we donthave much else to settle either
E N W all blocked
S is mostly no food plains
DIM: you have gotten the site near india which mukha told me he had to give to them
me: uhh i believe he said
he thought they might beat us to it
but they didn't
and we left them somewhere else to settle
DIM: well then
me: but
can you actually email me where mukha agreed not to settle
i cant find it in latest chats with you
just more 'we cant agree'
DIM: i thought it was pretty much implied
me: unless you guys chatted on msn or something
i dont see anything to suggest that
not trying ot be difficult
but we're pretty damn limited on future settling
im happy to discuss gifting you stuff to get this spot
DIM: impasse
me: looking for cuddles map
argh too many emails
Sent at 12:28 AM on Sunday
DIM: yeah better look ingame
Sent at 12:30 AM on Sunday
me: hmm
im not too sure why this spot is so important to you
I figure
you could settle 2W of the plains sheep
DIM: it is important because it is one of the last remaining good site
you can grab gold north of neo terminus
there is actually a very good gold site sw from
me: nah rome has it by agreement
DIM: strand
me: we agreed that with krill
its closer to him
DIM: well then i guess we'll just have to fight over it
too bad
me: really?
you'll actually war with an ally?
DIM: i see no other possibilty
me: i do
settle 2W of plains sheep


thats a good spot
hmm
one other spot i could settle
Sent at 12:37 AM on Sunday
DIM: sorry wireless went dead on me
me: ok whats last thing you got from me?
Sent at 12:40 AM on Sunday
DIM: thats a good spot
me: hmm
one other spot i could settle
1SE of grass sheep
is that workable?
2E 1N of gold
leaves you a lot of room
DIM: but it doesn't get me the best food tile
me: then farm 1 or two tiles!
DIM: haha
me: one thing to remember
we just gifted music
so 10 turns enforced peace
DIM: and?
me: and if you were to be unnecessarily aggressive
we could have more than adequate defence in time
DIM: dantski, you're not getting me
i'm willing to throw the game for this site
me: why
DIM: because it will close my borders very nicely
because it has two food resources and gold
me: so would 2 cities for us in this area
due to this im willing to sacrifice it down to 1 average city
Sent at 12:48 AM on Sunday
DIM: sorry dude
Sent at 12:50 AM on Sunday
me: also care to gift PPress?
PAT already knows it
DIM: not until this is sorted
me: umm
we gifted music
all take and no give?
DIM: i don't think music and printing press are comparable technologies
me: we've gotten previous techs too
is that all for nothing?
DIM: for the moment, it would seem so
me: well
for now ill say
think it over tonight
and email me before you sleep with your final decision
ill have to play tomorrow
DIM: i'm off to bed now dude
me: hopefully enough time
DIM: it's 2 am over here
me: k
well sleep on it then!
DIM: later man
me: alright goodnight

Some things to note

1. There was no agreement with Mukha over them settling here. He either has a poor memory or is flat out lying.

2. This turn we gifted them Music, he is withholding PPress until he/they get what they want.

3. At no point is he willing to negotiate somewhat equally. I repeatedly tried to move where I plan to settle but to no avail.

4. He complains that there's no good city spots left so he'll war on an ally to get one when someone on the other alliance has plenty of juicy cities next door?

5. This is total blackmail, strikingly similar to our earlier conflict with Rome. HRE is saying, give us what we want or we will break our civ just to spite you. I've made previous comments about this style of play and I don't think I need to again.

6. He jumped to try and grab my worker suggestion as a done deal. I initially thought it was a joke but it seems like it wasn't.

7. When I asked him to email proof of his agreements he ignored me.


Honestly, WHY would you threaten attack an ally who has done nothing to you all game over this? It just totally baffles me that he's happy to threaten me with this, while ignoring the fact that the main reason he's not got as many cities is because England squeezed him nicely.

Doesn't it make more sense to try and take land from your enemies than your allies?

Anyhoo tomorrow I'll move my knight to see if he was bluffing about his stack of 2 movers (I was bluffing over having Pikes). If he wasn't then ill settle on a hill and get Pikes down ASAP.

[Dantski]

T135 demographics




Totally unedited image, if its too wide or just a bit ugly due to its size thenI may be persuaded to resize it!

Anyhoo our research is 2nd to those Friendly Kittens I think (on occasion our GNP is above theirs). Production and food are both solid also.

Aside from a few barb incursions (may cost me a farmed corn ARGH), not much is going on. CUDDLE exchanged some research speeds etc over emails and not much else.

Still no confirmation over Krill's 2nd city near the sheep. Tempted to give him freedom to settle there while grabbing that city's food resource for myself. Question is, am I really that much of a bastard? Probably not, but future settling sites are extremely thin on the ground at the moment. Can get 2 more maximum, 1 is a certainty

[Mukha]

Why haven't we won this yet?

Edit: As Dantski won't tell me, perhaps a lurker can enlighten me? Lurkers are free to update our thread btw.

[Mukha]

Damn, now I know how our lurkers feel. Update our thread dammit! What's going on?

Do me a favour and post a few spam messages in a row at least. Just to make PAT think we are about to declare. Are we about to declare btw? Forget the spam thing if we are.

[Mukha]

I have devised a new care factor metric:

Number of emails sent by me between first contact (13th of Feb) and 4th of June (110 days): 86. Spams per day (SPD) 0.78. Damn I thought that would have been higher.

Number of emails sent by Dantski between 4th of June and today (67 days): 13. SPD 0.19

I outcare you 4 to 1!. Send penis enlargement emails, anything at all, just maintain contact!

[Mukha]

What turn are we up to?

[novice]

Damn, now I know how our lurkers feel. Update our thread dammit! What's going on?

Do me a favour and post a few spam messages in a row at least. Just to make PAT think we are about to declare. Are we about to declare btw? Forget the spam thing if we are.

Haha, welcome back.

[Dantski]

YOU update it!

I have very little interest in this game to be honest and really should just get someone to replace me