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SevenSpirits Wrote:+Movement is just really strong in Civ IV. Nav1 normally requires 5xp on boats (since you need to take flanking first) and means you aren't spending the xp on the also-valuable combat line. 3-move galleys allow you to come out of the fog and wreck people, and just plain outmaneuver your opponents at sea. (Check out Serdoa's thread in pbem32 for an example.) Late-game, having a more mobile fleet simply wins battles as first strike capabilities are worth so much.
We already know this map has a decent amount of water, with nearby islands as well as land across the ocean. There's no doubt boats will be valuable on this map. I think it's one of the strongest Unique Things available and Vikings are a strong civ on any map where their starting techs aren't awful.
Sold. Vikings it is.
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To elaborate on the case for the Ottoman:
I like the Jannisaries. Sure when it comes to fighting other muskets, they don't get a bonus. But during the period where the musket is king, there will still be plenty of maces and bow units running around. Not to mention Knights and if we end up fighting ballistas... Although I do concede that the window for using muskets can be limited, a problem for both Ottoman and France.
And I think the Hamman is pretty solid. 2 extra happiness on a building that tends to get built around the time health limits are getting hit and you start drafting Jannisaries.
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The period when Muskets are key is almost non-existent tbh. Muskets don't win against earlier units (Maces, Knights, Longbows in cities). Janissaries are only good if you beeline Gunpowder, and only until others get Gunpowder
Musketeers stay relevant during Gunpowder era as well (until Rifling). This still isn't a large window, but it's much bigger than for Jans
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yuris125 Wrote:The period when Muskets are key is almost non-existent tbh. Muskets don't win against earlier units (Maces, Knights, Longbows in cities). Janissaries are only good if you beeline Gunpowder, and only until others get Gunpowder
Musketeers stay relevant during Gunpowder era as well (until Rifling). This still isn't a large window, but it's much bigger than for Jans
Musketeers aren't meant to be primary attackers, any more than longbows are. They are defenders of both cities and stacks, which are effective against pretty much anything from their era or earlier. Their two movement allows them to escort mounted stacks that otherwise would not have any defense bonus, and also to rapidly help reinforce anywhere that gets threatened by invaders.
Jans are less useful than musketeers since they lack the double movement, but are even better as all-around defenders for their era. Until rifles reach the battlefield a jan can defend against just about anything.
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I view Musketeers as a drastically better unit than Jannisaries. Ottoman selling point is more their techs and UB, but the Jannisary is not scary at all.
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As someone who voted for France, I say let's go ahead and post our choice of Vikings in the public thread. It's the most popular by far, and I think everyone who voted for another civ is fine with the vikings.
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Now that you've chosen, would you mind saying why you dismissed Portugal from the Fishing/Mining pot?
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Commodore Wrote:Now that you've chosen, would you mind saying why you dismissed Portugal from the Fishing/Mining pot?
Well I had it on my shortlist of fishing/mining civs and then forgot about it.  Ultimately we didn't want a fishing/mining civ anyway, and I suspect England is better. (Custom House is a really bad building, and working water tiles is just mediocre compared to grassland cottages, so even though the Feitoria bonus is really strong I don't think it's that influential of a building. And the Carrack is mediocre since it comes close before Astronomy which effectively obsoletes it.)
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Definitely an interesting choice. No EXP to synergize with Terraces. They obviously wanted FIN, since they could have taken SPI/EXP if they had wanted that combo. So either they really wanted SPI, or else they are hating us for taking Pacal.
One more pick to go, and then hopefully we can get this game under way. 
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