I'm OK with reload if done quickly and that's why I actually appreciate e-mailing Sunrise immediately; I have absolutely no problem with replaying stupid errors per se, my only problem is that it can seriously delay the game.
Thank you for your quick action sunrise, and thank you everyone else for putting up with me!
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Ok, whats done is done, but I want to make something clear:
Reloads are meant to happen for bugs, accidental double-moves etc. They are NOT meant to be done because you misplay. It does not matter how grave the misplay is, it is not a reason to reload. It does set a bad example, because I can't determine how grave your misplay really was, but if you were granted a reload, everyone else has the right to ask for one as well when he misplays. And someone will misplay in a war-turn, maybe even someone not even involved in the war, not even knowing that a war is happening. If you don't grant the reload, you have to spoil that someone is at war. Or you grant the reload and due to the new RNG the war plays out differently. Both cases are just bad.
Also at some point others will have played before the reload happens, not everyone checks this thread before playing. Do they replay the same way again? If their axe landed next to two barb-axes for example they might very well not. No one can even check that. Or when they moved their "surprise-attack"-stack in a way that it is visible. Is it fair to grant a reload, so that they can keep it hidden for one more turn? It is not like they will tell you that this is the reason they ask for a reload - heck, one could intentionally misplay something else to ask for a reload and not even mention to the lurkers why he wants a reload.
In short: This reload should never have happened and I'm personally at the point that I ask myself if I even want to play under these circumstances.
(July 17th, 2013, 02:35)Serdoa Wrote: Ok, whats done is done, but I want to make something clear:
Reloads are meant to happen for bugs, accidental double-moves etc. They are NOT meant to be done because you misplay. It does not matter how grave the misplay is, it is not a reason to reload. It does set a bad example, because I can't determine how grave your misplay really was, but if you were granted a reload, everyone else has the right to ask for one as well when he misplays. And someone will misplay in a war-turn, maybe even someone not even involved in the war, not even knowing that a war is happening. If you don't grant the reload, you have to spoil that someone is at war. Or you grant the reload and due to the new RNG the war plays out differently. Both cases are just bad.
Also at some point others will have played before the reload happens, not everyone checks this thread before playing. Do they replay the same way again? If their axe landed next to two barb-axes for example they might very well not. No one can even check that. Or when they moved their "surprise-attack"-stack in a way that it is visible. Is it fair to grant a reload, so that they can keep it hidden for one more turn? It is not like they will tell you that this is the reason they ask for a reload - heck, one could intentionally misplay something else to ask for a reload and not even mention to the lurkers why he wants a reload.
In short: This reload should never have happened and I'm personally at the point that I ask myself if I even want to play under these circumstances.
Most of this post assumes that a person who asked for a reload can potentially be a cheater but under this assumption you shouldn't be playing the game at all. My assumption is that no one would ask for a reload unless he has a really good and legitimate reason and I trust other players to judge if their reasons are good and legitimate. That's why I would agree to almost any request for a reload IF it doesn't affect anyone but the player in question.
Also, I would recommend everyone to always check this thread before playing. Really, if you have played after the request for a reload was publicly made, the responsibility should be yours.
Having said that, I dislike the idea of reloading a misplay too. Can we all agree not to do it again in this game? We can give a pass to Merovich for this one as a reward for brining up the issue to our attention early enough.
(July 17th, 2013, 02:35)Serdoa Wrote: Ok, whats done is done, but I want to make something clear:
Reloads are meant to happen for bugs, accidental double-moves etc. They are NOT meant to be done because you misplay. It does not matter how grave the misplay is, it is not a reason to reload. It does set a bad example, because I can't determine how grave your misplay really was, but if you were granted a reload, everyone else has the right to ask for one as well when he misplays. And someone will misplay in a war-turn, maybe even someone not even involved in the war, not even knowing that a war is happening. If you don't grant the reload, you have to spoil that someone is at war. Or you grant the reload and due to the new RNG the war plays out differently. Both cases are just bad.
Also at some point others will have played before the reload happens, not everyone checks this thread before playing. Do they replay the same way again? If their axe landed next to two barb-axes for example they might very well not. No one can even check that. Or when they moved their "surprise-attack"-stack in a way that it is visible. Is it fair to grant a reload, so that they can keep it hidden for one more turn? It is not like they will tell you that this is the reason they ask for a reload - heck, one could intentionally misplay something else to ask for a reload and not even mention to the lurkers why he wants a reload.
In short: This reload should never have happened and I'm personally at the point that I ask myself if I even want to play under these circumstances.
(July 17th, 2013, 02:35)Serdoa Wrote: Ok, whats done is done, but I want to make something clear:
Reloads are meant to happen for bugs, accidental double-moves etc. They are NOT meant to be done because you misplay. It does not matter how grave the misplay is, it is not a reason to reload.
(July 17th, 2013, 03:05)Gavagai Wrote: Most of this post assumes that a person who asked for a reload can potentially be a cheater but under this assumption you shouldn't be playing the game at all. My assumption is that no one would ask for a reload unless he has a really good and legitimate reason and I trust other players to judge if their reasons are good and legitimate. That's why I would agree to almost any request for a reload IF it doesn't affect anyone but the player in question.
Also, I would recommend everyone to always check this thread before playing. Really, if you have played after the request for a reload was publicly made, the responsibility should be yours.
Having said that, I dislike the idea of reloading a misplay too. Can we all agree not to do it again in this game? We can give a pass to Merovich for this one as a reward for brining up the issue to our attention early enough.
I think you misunderstand my post. I don't assume that almost anyone asking for a reload is a cheater, but I KNOW that it opens up a plethora of possibilities for something to go wrong. Easy example: If I grant a reload due to a misclick to player 1 can I honestly expect player 2 to play the same way he played before, even though it might be negative for him? If you answer 'Yes', explain to me why. Because I certainly don't see why player 1 can undo his errors while player 2 has to stick with them. Obviously now comes the "But wait, undoing a move because you got additional information is different than undoing a misclick/unexpected game behaviour". I agree. But as always there is not only black and white. The additional information might have been possible to gain via one scout-unit as well. Maybe he didn't use it because he forgot about it when quickly playing the turn. I can easily lawyer that into a "misclick", giving me the same rights to a reload.
Worse, it doesn't matter at this point. Even if you don't grant the reload, if the player in question believes he has the right to get it, it will still end in bad feelings. And I really have a hard time NOT granting to anyone a reload, now that Merovech was granted it twice already (or three times even?).
