[spoilers] DTG thinks filthy casuals are ruining Realms Beyond

[DTG]

When does it hit its next border expand?

2-turns now.

I logged in, and Elkad had reoffered peace. I took it because this means that we can safely hook up any Copper and only need to worry about our North East. Well, that is, if NC ever decides to move his culture-trapped Warrior back west.

Bronze Working is in:







Three Coppers, two in our borders, one at Syllepsis.

I've switched Skotison back to a Worker and Syllepsis to the original Quecha. I still think that we want to settle the Corn/Ivory/Clams spot next. Ideally, we can do so before we whip an Axe, but we will need to be careful because the new city will be on flatland.

I'm not yet sure where to move the Scout. I don't think it can help out with Impis this turn, so I may just move it 2E, unless either of you can see something better?

[picklepikkl]

Having a mechanics-enforced NAP is excellent (as is the border expand at Syllepsis)! Our security against Elkad is nicely assured. Now our only immediate concern is the Impi blocking us from our expansion. If we could get the city settled without the need for an Axe, that would be nice, but where are we going to get the Archers? Finish the Skotison one and rotate the one from Juxtaposition once the Quechua is done? When do we revolt into Slavery, for that matter? (I trust your micro, I'm just curious for my own calibration)

I'd like to keep the Scout in the area to counter Impi harass, as well as scope out the potential Silks/Clams site. NE-NE? Now that we have reason to believe gsorel is to our north, securing that border seems vital.

[DTG]

Sorry for the slow reports: I'm visiting family at the moment. Feel free to login to the game whether I have played or not.

The Impi stand-off continued. We have another Worker from Skotison, so I finished the road 1NE of the capital and then moved an Archer + Quecha onto the Grass Hill as follows:




The Impi can't attack our Worker and only gets ~28% odds attacking the Archer on the hill. With any luck, we can road towards City #4.

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The Copper will be mined next turn. In the capital, I'm working another Plains Hill Forest instead of a Corn. This loses a lot of food, but gets us 6H of OF from the Archer and produces 15HPT in the capital. So we can build an Axe in 2-turns before a Slavery revolt (the quickest way to produce an Axe).

The tile 1E of where the Impi is camped is very exposed. Archers are not going to get good odds defending on that tile. I'm also quite concerned about another Impi moving in from the east, to snipe the obvious city plant.

After the Quecha completes in Syllepsis, I think we can build the Settler. Unfortunately Pottery will be a turn too late for the OF, so I think it may be a good idea to put the hammers into a Worker, whip this, and then OF into a Granary. Alternatively, we could get another Axe.

[picklepikkl]

I like the extra Worker proposal (as well as your micro in general -- I'm learning a lot from you). 1 axe should be enough, with all our archers, and we need to accelerate our growth curve after being so late to BW (for good reason! but we're still behind) and getting semi-choked out of our fourth city plant. Gotta start chopping out those Terraces.

Hope the family visit is going well.

EDIT: Also, what are you thinking for tech after Pottery -- Fishing or AH? I can see arguments for either -- personally leaning AH-wards, for the strat resource reveal and the deer/elephants/furs unlock, but Fishing has benefit of being cheap, plus we get EXP hammer mult on WBs.

[DTG]

I like the extra Worker proposal (as well as your micro in general -- I'm learning a lot from you). 1 axe should be enough, with all our archers, and we need to accelerate our growth curve after being so late to BW (for good reason! but we're still behind) and getting semi-choked out of our fourth city plant.

Thanks. It's a shame that it all feels a bit futile, really. gsorel has a unit that ties up nearly twice as many hammers for us to simply expand safely, and he has twice our production due to the early rush. So all of this mucking about on our part is just giving him more and more time to snowball, especially if every new city for us requires a similarly Herculean effort to protect and set-up.

EDIT: Also, what are you thinking for tech after Pottery -- Fishing or AH? I can see arguments for either -- personally leaning AH-wards, for the strat resource reveal and the deer/elephants/furs unlock, but Fishing has benefit of being cheap, plus we get EXP hammer mult on WBs.

I haven't thought that far ahead. I think Fishing depends upon when we want to build a WB, and I don't think that's very soon. City #4 will claim the first real seafood that we can immediately work (the Clams), but its first build will be a Granary (whipped) and it has an Ivory tile to work at size 2 as well. So I don't think there's any real reason to get it before AH.

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In other news, OT4E just built Stonehenge. Hopefully we'll find some Marble or Stone nearby, when we finally get back to exploring.

[DTG]

Two questions for the lurkers: I've been consistently playing after gsorel since we met, although we've not really been at war (just 1-turn so far) and are not in a settling contest, as far as I'm aware. There might have been a turn where I played before him, but that'd be 1 turn out of 10.

1. Does this mean we're in a(n unofficial) peace-time turn split?
   
2. If not, would it be a jerk move to double-move in a way that keeps my units safer?

Q.2 relates to moving units onto (and off) this tile:

[GermanJoey]

If you're not at war, not racing for a settlement, and you yourself don't want to hold to a split for other reasons, then there's no obligation to continue keeping to a split.

[picklepikkl]

Thanks, GJ I was wondering something similar.

The harass does feel frustrating, I agree; my chief hope is that gsorel's economy might be in the shitter from being at so many cities. I guess we'll know when we get their graphs.

One thing this semi-choke (by a unit that is probably unkillable at a favorable resource ratio if gsorel plays correctly) has been making me think about is Sailing. We've got this sea which we've explored around, and we know there's some pretty good land on the other side. After we secure ivory/corn, I kind of want to send our next Settler to claim the fur/fish site while we work on getting a galley out at Syllepsis. This keeps us from having to fuss with a laborious dance with multiple covering units to either trap the Impi or just keep our Settlers covered, and also opens up the possibility of pressuring Elkad from his south. The obvious downside is that it doesn't help us settle to the north, where gsorel presumably is and might be settling in our direction. This whole scheme is a 20-turns-out sort of thing, so not directly relevant Right Now, but I certainly don't want to dance to gsorel's tune forever.

In other news, I'm really digging the vision we get from our cultural dominance. Having so much less to worry about in our west is great. Maybe we'll be able to exploit Elkad's difficulty in defending his northern city at some point.

[picklepikkl]

Can't log in until tomorrow, but one thing I noticed from stalking CivStats is that pindicator logged in under a name that implies he's in a turn split. Wonder if there will be another runaway to oppose gsorel; that would be good for us small fry.

[DTG]

Can't log in until tomorrow, but one thing I noticed from stalking CivStats is that pindicator logged in under a name that implies he's in a turn split. Wonder if there will be another runaway to oppose gsorel; that would be good for us small fry.

Lots of activity in the lurker thread, too.

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In our West, it seems that Elkad has founded Hinduism in his second city:




I think this is an okay move for him? It's kind of distinct from his main problem, in that he only has two cities. We will still be able to work the Clams for some time after our borders pop, though the Furs are now a lost cause.

The immediate culture pressure is, however, a pain. He can attack our city directly, so I'm moving two Archers back to the city before our NAP expires on T58. I thought for a long time about changing the micro the Worker on the Cow to the Copper, to complete a chop on T57. But, at the end of the day, we are falling behind relative to gsorel and neglecting improvements will only exacerbate that. Moreover, Elkad just 3-pop whipped his capital, which I hope means that he will focus on a new city rather than aggression. Let's see anyway.

City #4 is also ready to settle:




The capital is going to whip an Axe, with the OF completing a Terrace. Whipping a Worker produced too little OF, and two Axes should secure our north (i.e. the capital and new city) for some time.

I thought Aischrologia might be a better name to use, given the difficulties we've had for the past ten turns.

One thing this semi-choke (by a unit that is probably unkillable at a favorable resource ratio if gsorel plays correctly) has been making me think about is Sailing. We've got this sea which we've explored around, and we know there's some pretty good land on the other side. After we secure ivory/corn, I kind of want to send our next Settler to claim the fur/fish site while we work on getting a galley out at Syllepsis. This keeps us from having to fuss with a laborious dance with multiple covering units to either trap the Impi or just keep our Settlers covered, and also opens up the possibility of pressuring Elkad from his south. The obvious downside is that it doesn't help us settle to the north, where gsorel presumably is and might be settling in our direction. This whole scheme is a 20-turns-out sort of thing, so not directly relevant Right Now, but I certainly don't want to dance to gsorel's tune forever.

In other news, I'm really digging the vision we get from our cultural dominance. Having so much less to worry about in our west is great. Maybe we'll be able to exploit Elkad's difficulty in defending his northern city at some point.

Yeah, the Fur/Fish city should be an easy settle. We might push out two Settlers at once, and claim that plus another eastern site.

We probably need to start thinking about new short to medium-term plans, too. Current options are (I think) GLH, Colossus, or HArcher rush. The Pyramids are too expensive without Stone (I really hope there is some Stone or Marble nearby).

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edit: thanks, GermanJoey. That's very helpful to know.