Plako excused for his tone in that message and I replied:
Quote:Hi,
I was writing my message a bit in a haste so I'm afraid the tone of it didn't come out quite right. I'm willing to negotiate also the points given below. Have you scouted in the area or do you need our screenshots? I hope you understand that I've considered the area mine for quite some time. It is closer to my capital than yours and also was part of our original settling agreement.
Kind regards,
plako
Quote:Hey Plako,
Good to get this second message.
From our point of view, we agreed on a border agreement at the time, mostly concerning the land bridge that connects the two of us.
That deal gave you an awesome site and no need to settle it first due to that deal.
It also gave both of us a safe border.
The land on our side or our border is far worse then your site, you'll have to agree on that.
Then the game moved on and we started scouting some more.
We know for sure that the only way for us to move north by land is past those 4 peaks there are on our northen landbridge.
We didn't know that at the time we agreed to our border.
That brings us to this somewhat difficult position. If we can't move north over that landbridge in expansion, we'll have to take a military route for further expansion north, east or west.
That's how the game stands for us.
We really like the deals we made so far, and we like to see the both of us move towards a peacefull future together, but that can't happen with the current agreement nor with the proposal you made so far.
We would really like to hear a more reasonable proposal from you before answering to such a proposal.
Kind regards,
Nakor
Now we wait and see again.
WarriorKnight told me that he and Plako both have a landbridge to their north, so he should be able to expand in that direction.
He also told me that he has a NAP with Plako untill t110.
Now I have to talk to Locke:
Quote:Well you not respond yet but I feel we have to write back. Your power graph is spiking upward. You are building lots of axes. You plant city with no food resource real close to our city. We not stupid. It sure looks like you are thinking about attacking us.
We have zero interest in war. There is tons of open land on this map so fighting is stupid in early game. If you attack us we whip walls in chokepoint city and you will not break through. But we still lose in that scenario cause we whipping units and walls instead of expanding. If we fight we both lose. Early war is stupid.
Now maybe you just worried about plako. We understand that cause plako is #1 team in game right now. If that is true then lets sign NAP deal and you can focus on defend eastern border. We would like to get city on hill tile west of sheep (S-S-SE of our city on choke). We would be happy to take that city and NAP deal. Then you can concentrate on plako and expand, and we can focus expand too.
I hope you will write back soon. I'm sure you worried about plako but going after us will not solve problems.
Locke
Well, the diplo situation since this exchange has been interesting. For the lurkers:
First Locke, who I include just because I love his tone. He can't possibly be a native English speaker, but his bluntness is appreciated:
Locke Wrote:Well you not respond yet but I feel we have to write back. Your power graph is spiking upward. You are building lots of axes. You plant city with no food resource real close to our city. We not stupid. It sure looks like you are thinking about attacking us.
We have zero interest in war. There is tons of open land on this map so fighting is stupid in early game. If you attack us we whip walls in chokepoint city and you will not break through. But we still lose in that scenario cause we whipping units and walls instead of expanding. If we fight we both lose. Early war is stupid.
Now maybe you just worried about plako. We understand that cause plako is #1 team in game right now. If that is true then lets sign NAP deal and you can focus on defend eastern border. We would like to get city on hill tile west of sheep (S-S-SE of our city on choke). We would be happy to take that city and NAP deal. Then you can concentrate on plako and expand, and we can focus expand too.
Obviously a cross-post.
I hope you will write back soon. I'm sure you worried about plako but going after us will not solve problems.
Locke
He's pretty reasonable here. I don't have any real interest in warring with anyone right now, but we need to secure expansion targets or we lose just as surely as we do via a bloody fight. I think we can agree to let him settle that bridge in exchange for the northern site and a NAP, but let's also see what we can see about securing future cooperation - I don't like how close he ends up to our capital by settling the sheep site.
Onto plako:
plako Wrote:Hi,
I was writing my message a bit in a haste so I'm afraid the tone of it didn't come out quite right. I'm willing to negotiate also the points given below. Have you scouted in the area or do you need our screenshots? I hope you understand that I've considered the area mine for quite some time. It is closer to my capital than yours and also was part of our original settling agreement.
Kind regards,
plako
If we were playing WW2 and this was the lurker thread, this would be the part where I'd accuse him of reading our spoiler thread, since the timing of it is convenient. We're not playing WW2 however, so let's move on. Nakor's response:
Nakor Wrote:Hey Plako,
Good to get this second message.
From our point of view, we agreed on a border agreement at the time, mostly concerning the land bridge that connects the two of us.
That deal gave you an awesome site and no need to settle it first due to that deal.
It also gave both of us a safe border.
The land on our side or our border is far worse then your site, you'll have to agree on that.
Then the game moved on and we started scouting some more.
We know for sure that the only way for us to move north by land is past those 4 peaks there are on our northen landbridge.
We didn't know that at the time we agreed to our border.
That brings us to this somewhat difficult position. If we can't move north over that landbridge in expansion, we'll have to take a military route for further expansion north, east or west.
That's how the game stands for us.
We really like the deals we made so far, and we like to see the both of us move towards a peacefull future together, but that can't happen with the current agreement nor with the proposal you made so far.
We would really like to hear a more reasonable proposal from you before answering to such a proposal.
Kind regards,
Nakor
Very aggressive for Nakor. But honesty is the best policy here. Bottom line, we have to not get boxed in. That's really all there is to this.
Rather than dump the chat w/WK, I'll just say that 1. WK has a NAP w/plako to T110. 2. WK indicates plako has another route to the north besides the bridge we're contesting. 3. He's quite interested in revenge down the road.
T110 obviously doesn't help us at all, so if we do something, we're playing solo. Its certainly possible that WKs scouting has been poor due to the circumstances he came into the game, however, given that his warrior came to us through that landbridge, it certainly implies a 2nd access point in the east, so I feel comfortable his assessment is correct.
Ultimately, plako has to be reasonable with us or we get violent. I don't want to go to war right now, I don't think we're a million miles behind or anything where we have to get desperate, but if we let ourselves get boxed in, we can get maybe 4-5 more reasonable city sites and thats it, while plako can get any number of them for free working alone. What I'd really like to see from him is an agreement that we can have this connecting route, he takes the one in the east, and we let the chips fall where they may in the future once we hit the middle. I highly doubt he's going to agree to that.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
I hope to take some screenshots tomorrow, Novice, and will post the then.
Here are the talks with Locke. Gaspar, I need your thoughts before getting signing a deal, though I'm inclined to accept the deal and sign a NAP untill T110 or T120.
Quote:Hey Locke,
Sorry for not responsing earlier.
Our power is indeed getting up but that has nothing to do with you. We just don't feel safe with only warriors.
We are currently discussing with Plako about a deal about the land to our north. If that doesn't work out, we might be forced to go to war for more expansion, especially since we already have touching borders.
So we are a bit worried.
The city we build close to you gave us access to a vital resource: horses.
We don't want to attack you and would be willing to sign a NAP together with a land-split.
What do you propose? Mayve you can send a screenshot with your proposal to us.
Nothing to worry about yet! Early war is indeed stupid.
Kind regards,
Nakor
Quote:OK well that is good to know. At the same time, you say "we might be forced to go to war for more expansion." But you dont say who you going to war with! You imply plako but it is unclear. We have to be careful. If we leave ourselves unguarded and yuo attack then our game is over. Obviously this is bad.
Problem is lack of trust. Best way to solve that is to sign NAP deal. That way we know you not going to attack, you know we will stay out of your conflict with plako. (If plako attack you we maybe even help cause he is #1 civ right now and that is bad for everyone.) We will sign NAP right now. Up to Turn 100, Turn 120, whatever you want. As for land we dont need to send screenshot. I tell you in last email we want a city on tile W of sheep. Or S-S-SE of Teoihuacan. Just that spot. You can settle wherever you want except there. That is good deal for you cause it gives you most land between our teams. Teoihuacan is 5 tiles from our capital and sheep spot is 6 tiles away. You get Horseland, you get fish/copper spot in north, you get 1-2 more cities W of your caiptal on your side of peninsula. Theres a fish whale spot in north and another whales silver spot in south. Several good spots for your team.
If you are serious about peace then sign NAP deal with us. We will build road to Horseland and sign OB for trade income. I think that is best outcome. We just want 1 city at sheep spot and leave everything else to you. Hope to hear from you soon.
Locke
Go ahead and sign the NAP with Locke. 110 sounds good. I'll look at the save when I get home tonight and try and put something more cogent together for you and the lurkers.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
But honesty is the best policy here. Bottom line, we have to not get boxed in. That's really all there is to this.
