Who shall lead us to Victory!!!

[TheHumanHydra]

The point of SH is that it saves you several turns and hammers per city because you don't need a monument so can immediately start with Granary / Warrior (depending on techs). It also means you have more freedom in settling your cities as you do not need to make sure to have the good tiles in first ring but you can even settle cities with only second ring resources as in 5 turns you'll pop borders anyway.

Sorry Serdoa, it was a rhetorical question; that was my point. Good explanation anyway though.

So it seems we're in agreement: no Oracle, at least for now.

[Serdoa]

I'd keep it as a afterthough. I have not much time still unfortunately but maybe if I am allowed, I'd like to set the target for your sims:

Both civs together at T30: 6 cities, 10 workers.

Probably not doable, but maybe it is?

[TheHumanHydra]

We'll have to sim it out; it's ambitious, but it might be doable: Vicky's start has a lot of production when improved, and forests to chop. You mean six including the capitals, right?

[HitAnyKey]

I'm still not so sure we should give up so easily on the Oracle. One of the other reasons is that it then allows one of the other civs to get a free tech. Though I do see the reasoning behind our needing to get the city expansion as well.
I'll think a bit more on it before I weigh in on it in more detail. We still have plenty of time to make a final decision.

[Serdoa]

As for the other civs getting a free tech (or the free tech in general): The free tech is nice but investing 100 (respectively 67) hammers into it means that you delay your expansion for it. So this tech has to make up for that loss, otherwise it is a net negative. Now as explained MC imo does that not. What else is available?

CoL -> certainly interesting but needs Writing so T28 is imo out of the question for tech-restraints.
Monarchy -> Is needed but not at T30. You want to expand, build workers and setters. Monarchy helps with the vertical expansion, but that comes later.
Maths -> again the Writing-problem. And in general not the preferred target for it

Quite honestly, I personally believe that Oracle can help, but in most cases it hurts. You get your score increased considerably and if you have kept nearly up in expansion will at that point look like a runaway when in reality in 30 turns down the road you will have fallen back behind those only expanding.

Of course, if you find a way to incorporate it, go for it. Just don't have an expansion of 1 city at T30 to get it, because that is certainly spelling disaster.