[SPOILERS] Getting my feet wet in multiplayer

[Charriu]

T100:



WilliamLP declared war on me too, but I think he only wanted to destroy my axeman. I offered him peace, will see if he takes it. Back on the other side 3 units from Dark Savant showed up; I highlighted them for you. I also founded Taxila this turn. WilliamLP only has skirmishers nearby and by the time they arive at Taxila my axeman is also there to defend.

[Charriu]

T101:



Yes, that is another settler from WilliamLP.    Next turn I will chop the forest under my spearman to speed up the barracks. I don't wanna loose another city to him because of a stupid culture war, especially when I was here first. I also whipped Lyceum for my first swordman. WilliamLP offered me a peace treaty which I accepted, so ten turns of peace on this side. But I don't think that is enough time to capture the barbarian city and fortify the east. Back at Dark Savant's border everything is peaceful for now.

[Charriu]

T102:



I explored a lot more in the north as you can see. Most interesting here is that WilliamLP and Superdeath are neighbors on land. I hope to stay in good relations with Superdeath. If he comes into conflict with WilliamLP I may have a chance to retake some land from WilliamLP.



Still nothing new at Dark Savant's border. I made a decision about the barbarian city in the south. I think I will be to late to raze this city and settle a new one if I look at superdeath borders there. Taking the city is also a bad option because of the strong culture there. Therefore I decided to settle a different city at the "alt city" sign. Lyceum started a settler for this and it should be no problem to settle this. It also shares the iron and the pig with other cities.

I'm working on my analysis about my failings. I'm doing a game with the same map to compare my findings to what happened in the game. After that I will start writing.

[Charriu]

As some of you may have noticed, I joined into another Pitboss (PB40). So before I start posting any game reports there, I would kindly ask for your feedback about my writing style. Be open, be harsh, don't hold back. Every criticism can help in developing a better style for you and me.

So far these are the things I considered so far:

• Post more about the micro management part: I want to give you more detail about my micro management (worker, worked tiles, city production etc.) That way I can get better feedback in the future. This will require a bit more work on my side, but I think it's worth it. The only thing I'm not sure about is in which style. I definitly don't want to do images for every city as I don't want to overboard the thread with images.
  
• Daily reports about the demographics: I will try to post a demo screen for every turn. I won't comment about it every time and I will probably do it with an image as this is the most convenient, but I will shrink the image, because of the bandwidth. By the way is there a more convenient way to shrink screenshots? For now I would just make a screenshot via print key, load it up in photoshop or paint and shrink it there.
  
• Split the report into a micro and macro part: Linked to my first point, this should improve the readability of the thread for those only interested in one of these parts. Macro will be my overall thinking, diplomacy, dotmaps and other planning etc. Micro will be my new micromanagement section.
  
• War reports: During war time I want to do separate sections for my troop movements
  

[Charriu]

T103

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Macro

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What happened last turn:

• Borders of Taehak popped
  

Diplomacy:

• Met last player Yuri
  
• Peace offer to Dark Savant
  

Tech: Next turn Currency finishs, so I'm looking into new options:

• Calendar: Mainly for the happiness resources. This would grant me incense instantly because Nalada settled on it. I will also be able to connect silk and sugar. All in all 3 happiness.
  
• Construction: Mainly for the bridge building so that I can better supply my cities, the colloseum also provides 1 happiness, but for calendar would be faster and better for happiness, lastly the catapults could be useful
  
• Archery: Quick and needed for a follow up into Horseback riding
  
• Horseback Riding: For the Horse Archer and needed for the Ballista Elephants
  

War: Dark Savant has only one archer at the border to protect his worker
What will I do this turn and why: I send an axeman to the new altcity place. Otherwise not much happened other than building up. 



I'm really relieved that borders at Taehak finally popped.

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Micro

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Workers

• Aristotle: Chopping wood near Taxila
  
• Socrates: Building iron mine near Pandidakterion
  
• Apollodorus: Finished iron mine near Nalada
  
• Erasmus: Started road on iron mine near Nalada
  

Cities

Academia:
Worked Tiles: Floodplain Cottage (3F 4C); Floodplain Cottage (3F 4C); North pig (6F 1C); copper mine (6H); elephant camp(1F 3H 1C)
Current Production: Worker (1 left)
Current Growth: 5 (worker production)

Academia:
Worked Tiles: Floodplain Cottage (3F 4C); Floodplain Cottage (3F 4C); North pig (6F 1C); copper mine (6H); elephant camp(1F 3H 1C)
Current Production: Worker (1 left)
Current Growth: 5 (worker production)

Lyceum:
Worked Tiles: Clam (5F 2C); iron mine (1F 5H 1C); cow (4F 2H 1C); copper mine (6H)
Current Production: Settler (4 left)
Current Growth: 4 (settler production)

Museion:
Worked Tiles: Clam (5F 2C); Floodplain (3F 1C); Horse (2F 3H 1C); plain hill mine (4H)
Current Production: Spearman (2 left)
Current Growth: 4 (4 left)

Taehak:
Worked Tiles: Pig (6F 4C); Banana (3F); Grasland (2F; grasland forest (2F 1H)
Current Production: Library (19 left)
Current Growth: 4 (4 left)

Nalanda:
Worked Tiles: iron mine (2F 4H); deer (4F 1H)
Current Production: Moai (40 left)
Current Growth: 2 (6 left)

Pandidakterion:
Worked Tiles: cow (4F 2H)
Current Production: Barracks (1 left)
Current Growth: 1 (2 left)


Taxila:
Worked Tiles: cow (3F 1C)
Current Production: Barracks (27 left)
Current Growth: 1 (5 left)

[Charriu]

So here it comes my great analysis:

There are a some problems that I identified and I will address one by one:

Failed expansion:

Almost all my neighbors started aquiring more cities than me pretty fast after turn 60 or so. Looking back at my thread I noticed that I invested to much time producing a barracks, worker and granary in Academia. I should have chopped the first forest into a worker. That way my first settler would have been delayed one or two turns, but seeing as I was the first player settling anyway, it's not a big deal. In the end I should have started the next settler much sooner. In my comparison game I was able to settle my 5th city, when in the original game I settled the 4th. With a better city placement I could have used newly build cities to produce some units and Academia for settlers.

Exploration:

Here I made a few mistakes at different time. First I should have moved my initial scout back towards Academia after exploring the SE a bit. With the scout back I should have explored the east more. The only disadvantage would have been that I did not meet JR4 and ipecac, but I would have met JR4 eventually and meeting ipecac is still not important.
The second mistake was to use the axeman to explore further past Dark Savant. I really could have used the axeman to kill some barbarians. Just to give you a perspective, because of the missing axeman, I moved in my axeman from Academia; then after a barb showed up at Academia, I quickly needed to produce another axeman, which delayed a settler.
Third, I moved to close towards WilliamLP's border, I should have anticipated that he can and will kill my warrior.

Panic Mode:

At around turn 64 I noticed that WilliamLP is my neighbor and close by. I started to panic and settled some stupid cities that I could not defend in any way. This could have been avoided with early exploraton, but even without, I should have opted for more safer and close by cities to settle. I also did not notice that WilliamLP has the Stonehenge.


Wonder plan:

I failed to acquire the Great Lighthouse; but in my comparison game I managed to finish it. The plan was good, but it further delayed expansion. I should not focus on wonder production for the next games until I feel safer at home with the fast expansion in MP.

Handling of the war:

A few mistakes were done here, too. First I should have teched archery early and produced some archers. These could have avoided the desaster with the chariots. In addition I should not wait with the spearmen production until my neighbors get horses. Lastly my supply lines were stretched to far and I was never able to get my spearmen into the right place at the right time. I also focused to much on the isthmuses towards my territory. A more compact empire would have been better than a single far away city to block access.

City placement:

• Lyceum: I should have gone with the advise of dtay and found it 1SE. In both positions I could use the pig from Academia, but in the other position I could use the cow from the get go. That way I needed a barracks for the border pop. It was not totally bad because I needed the barracks any way for the exp, but it could have been useful a bit earlier.
  
• Museion: Settling this was the first big mistake in this game. Museion had the potential to be a great commerce city, but that takes time. It was low on production from the beginning, I needed to build two workboats in itself. I would better have settled Pandidakterion before Museion. Museion should have been settled much later, especially when it was safer for it.
  
• Taixue: It was absolutely wrong to settle this in any way. Here are just some reasons: Maintenance cost increased to much, because of the distance; 1NE would have been better and safer; wasted precious turns by needing to build a workboat first; supplying it with troops was to difficult
  

Tech Path:

1. The Wheel: This was a good tech to start, the roadwork really helped and optimized the first turns.
   
2. BW: Another good tech, slavery really was needed and the copper and axeman were very handy.
   
3. Fishing: I only needed it for pottery, but I eventually needed it for all the coastal cities
   
4. Pottery: It was ok I guess. I only build two cottages so far and the granaries. During my comparison game I was at a good pace science wise without any cottages.
   
5. Agriculture: This was a mistake. I only used it for the one wheat near Lyceum, if I settled Lyceum 1SE I would not have needed it.
   
6. AH: This was actually ok. The early happiness from the elephant was really useful and it was good to know were the horses are. I also need it for the deers
   
7. Writing: Just like Agriculture this was a mistake. I did not use the libraries proper; only to support my border cities. I could have put all this science at a better tech. I also think the libraries led me to neglect actual defense on the border cities.
   
8. Sailing: This was good. I still think the Great Lighthouse attempt was good, but if I would have developed this before Writing, my chances of getting the Great Lighthouse would have been much better. This would also have helped with trade routes without needing many roads.
   
9. Masonary: This was only for the Great Lighthouse
   
10. Iron working: This was good if I would have had the time to use it
    

Small mistakes:

• Lost one turn in new city of Lyceum, because I forgot to change to slavery
  
• Whipped a few times to early, should have waited for more food.
  
• Moved a warrior to early from Academia, causing unhappiness for one turn
  
• Forgot to build a road near Lyceum during my wonder plan
  
• Forgot WilliamLP's warrior endangering my workers during wonder plan
  

Lessons to take away from this:

• Constantly watch the demo screens and act when you have the first feeling for a rush
  
• Start every turn by looking at the log, advisors before doing anything
  
• New cities need a food resource in the first ring or immediately available otherwise
  
• Overlapping cities are great, use them.
  
• Cautiously scout around enemy borders, they might kill the scout.
  
• Definitely acquire archers and spearmen early.
  
• DON'T PANIC, stay calm and overthink your options
  

[Zalson]

I think the fact that you only have 4 workers now really is indicative of your stymied growth: I was rather impressed with some of the early game screenshots but I think generally stopped pushing expansion and fell into an infrastructure hole.

PB38 spoilers

that was one thing I really realized by watching TBS in PB38. Many of his early cities have a granary -- and that's it. They use the granary to grow to size and then contribute to the growth of the empire: workers or chopped settlers or units to defend.

Old harry and fintourist are also instructive: when they're making a risky plant, they have units in the backlines to support and bring overwhelming force to defend.

I think delaying Agriculture was a mistake, actually. While you only have one plant that uses Agg, in general delaying agriculture is usually a mistake. You'll ignore the high-value food sites in terms of other ones that are less valuable (seafood, for instance, has a 30h opportunity cost to access).

Wheel first wasn't necessarily the best choice; it would have been better to go BW first and chop out the settlers and workers with your 8 forests in the capitals BFC -- especially since you're expansive.

Without the benefit of a sim, I'd say your worker use should have gone pig to pig, and then made with the choppity to get worker 2 right away. The road saved a worker turn... maybe you would have had two workers turns to spend a few turns earlier? Then chop out settler 2 for shared pigs and double-cow spot. Then whip/chop some more workers, with warriors/archers to help defend.

Use this as an opportunity to practice defense. You should be whipping your cities into the ground (well, not into the ground, but every city should be on units) a la

PB38 spoiler

superdeath

Hope this critique helps. I look forward to collaborating in PB40!

[Hollybombay]

  How would you rank the current field?

[Charriu]

T104

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Macro

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What happened last turn:

• Dark Savant did not accept the peace offer
  

Tech: I decided for Archery and then Calendar. Archery should be finished in one turn especially now that I have a lot of more gold to work with thanks to currency.
War: I highlighted Dark Savant's force at the border. I think they are only there to protect the workers.
What will I do this turn and why: Another turn of not much happening visually.

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Micro

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Workers

• Aristotle: Finished chopping wood near Taxila
  
• Socrates: Finished iron mine near Pandidakterion
  
• Apollodorus: Moved to hill 1SW of Nalada to start a mine there.
  
• Erasmus: Finished road on iron mine near Nalada
  

Cities

Academia:
Worked Tiles: Floodplain Cottage (3F 4C); Floodplain Cottage (3F 4C); North pig (6F 1C); copper mine (6H); elephant camp(1F 3H 1C)
Current Production: Spearman (1 left)
Current Growth: 5 (3 left)

Lyceum:
Worked Tiles: Clam (5F 2C); iron mine (1F 5H 1C); cow (4F 2H 1C); copper mine (6H)
Current Production: Settler (3 left)
Current Growth: 4 (settler production)

Museion:
Worked Tiles: Clam (5F 2C); Floodplain (3F 1C); Horse (2F 3H 1C); plain hill mine (4H)
Current Production: Spearman (1 left)
Current Growth: 4 (3 left)

Taehak:
Worked Tiles: Pig (6F 4C); Banana (3F); Grasland (2F; grasland forest (2F 1H)
Current Production: Library (18 left)
Current Growth: 4 (3 left)

Nalanda:
Worked Tiles: iron mine (2F 4H); deer (4F 1H)
Current Production: Moai (39 left)
Current Growth: 2 (5 left)

Pandidakterion:
Worked Tiles: cow (4F 2H)
Current Production: Axeman (5 left)
Current Growth: 1 (1 left)

Taxila:
Worked Tiles: cow (3F 1C)
Current Production: Barracks (1 left)
Current Growth: 1 (4 left)

[Charriu]

I think the fact that you only have 4 workers now really is indicative of your stymied growth: I was rather impressed with some of the early game screenshots but I think generally stopped pushing expansion and fell into an infrastructure hole.

I lost 2 workers in my conflicts with Dark Savant and WilliamLP. Back when I lost my first city Taixue to Dark Savant I had 4 cities and 6 workers. But other than that you are right and I'm working on bringing up my worker numbers.

I think delaying Agriculture was a mistake, actually. While you only have one plant that uses Agg, in general delaying agriculture is usually a mistake. You'll ignore the high-value food sites in terms of other ones that are less valuable (seafood, for instance, has a 30h opportunity cost to access).

Well if it comes to connecting food resources with farms I would disagree with you on this. Back than I had the following resources that needed agriculture:

• Plain dry wheat north of Lyceum: This was my inital reason to tech for agriculture and I think this one was the nearest and easiest to use.
  
• Plain dry wheat south of Pandidakterion: This was a bit way of. If I would have worked more with overlapping cities around my capitol at the start I would not have been able to reach it. But even then it is in an awkward place and on a plain irregating it would have been annoying
  
• Plain irregated wheat SE of Taehuk: Same as with Pandidakterion it is a bit way of, but at least it is irregated.
  
• Grasland irregated corn E of Lyceum: This is the next best of these food resources, but a city there would have risen the distance maintenance a bit more at the start
  
• Grasland irregated corn W of Museion: Museion itself was a bit way of. Would I have settled Taixue 1NE I have had good use of this corn, but I settled Taixue late after turn 40
  

So all delaying agriculture was not that bad, as settling cities near these resources would have better come late, too.
Of course if we are talking about building farms on none resource tiles like the flood plains near Academia, then you are right that delaying was a mistake.

Wheel first wasn't necessarily the best choice; it would have been better to go BW first and chop out the settlers and workers with your 8 forests in the capitals BFC -- especially since you're expansive.

Yeah you are right in this. Wheel basically saved my worker 3 unproductive turns, but chopping out workers would have been better.

Without the benefit of a sim, I'd say your worker use should have gone pig to pig, and then made with the choppity to get worker 2 right away. The road saved a worker turn... maybe you would have had two workers turns to spend a few turns earlier? Then chop out settler 2 for shared pigs and double-cow spot. Then whip/chop some more workers, with warriors/archers to help defend.

I did go for pig to pig and in my comparison game I did what you suggest and it was the right move.

Use this as an opportunity to practice defense. You should be whipping your cities into the ground (well, not into the ground, but every city should be on units) a la

I will. My cities were already whipped hard. Some like Museion were on 2 pop at times without more happiness to grow. But other than I'm now looking at finishing the library in Taehek as I already am at half and can whip it soon. Lyceum will start unit production again after the settler and Academia will focus on worker for now. Nalada is still on the Moai, but I will look into changing this to unit production next. All others focus on unit production.

Hope this critique helps. I look forward to collaborating in PB40!

Critique is always welcome. Never hold back on it, I can take a beating.