[SPOILERS] Map Creation Thread

[Maksim]

I'm not seeing how triremes don't figure into it but yeah, Tsunami seems kinda broken. The question for me is how much water can you have on a FFH map without it being overpowered? It's important to me that water be a little bit more prominent than on a pangaea.

This map had about 25% coast tiles; what do you think would be an acceptable amount?

Basically, triremes are purely defensive as they will be stuck in their body of water. They also require Copper to build - I don't think that everyone will be able to build them. Cultists, Drowns and Stygian Guards are much more flexible. If you were to invest heavily in triremes, you'd not be spending those resources on land-based units - in which case, these guys just stick to land. Also, having a Trireme means having a coastal city - that is very vulnerable to the same Cultists.

The problem with simply counting the number of tiles which are Coast, is that the number of tiles, which are near-coast depends not just on the total number of Coast tiles, but also on the distribution.

For example, if we have 16 Coast tiles in a 5 by 5 square (with 9 center squares being Ocean), we have another 24 squares coastal (the outline of a seven by seven by grid -> 7*7 - 5*5 = 24). If we have them as four 2-by-2 lakes, then each lake has twelve near-coast squares, and we have 48 near-coast squares in total. If we have sixteen one-square lakes, we have 16*8= 128 near-coast squares.

So the answer is that you can have more water percentage if you want, but you should try to keep it to one or two larger bodies of water, with ocean in the middle (perhaps an island - if so, make it just a single sea). This will make OO useful in that locality, but of less importance elsewhere.

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On your new map example, I note that there is quite a lot of barren land at the top north and south - it looks like almost half the map is taken by it in some verticals. Considering this is largely wasted land, can you shorten those bands of tundra and ice?

Making sense?

[DaveV]

My two cents:

The "standard" opening tech path is agriculture->calendar, then revolt to agrarianism (+1 food, -1 hammer on farmed tiles). This makes corn super good, wheat and rice equivalent, and flood plains very good. Any calendar commerce special is helpful, especially the ones not on desert. My ideal start has a farmable food special, a calendar commerce special, and one or two more random specials. Silk is a bad special, because you have to research 4 techs before you can put a plantation on it. Calendar resources on jungle are even more painful to use.

One specific note on the first map: I don't think I've ever seen the elves start in jungle. They are likely to be more than 100 turns into a normal game before they will be able to chop jungle, and they have no other way to turn it to forest.

The thing with Tsunami is that it can be cast on any square adjacent to water (ocean or lake). If you have lots of rivers, like in the first example, then people can settle away from lakes and coasts if they're worried about Tsunami.

[SevenSpirits]

So the answer is that you can have more water percentage if you want, but you should try to keep it to one or two larger bodies of water, with ocean in the middle (perhaps an island - if so, make it just a single sea). This will make OO useful in that locality, but of less importance elsewhere.

I understand the math, I just need to know how much.

Yes, it's possible to have less tundra/ice.

[SevenSpirits]

Silk is a bad special, because you have to research 4 techs before you can put a plantation on it.

Thanks, I didn't think of the foresty-ness of the plantation resources as a drawback, I'll keep this in mind.

[Maksim]

As an eyeball, I'd suggest making it even more clustered - if the script could concentrate the water in one or two locations, that would be great.

The water percentage could go down to maybe 8-10%? But it's not too big a deal, I think.

[SevenSpirits]

Water in one location is just a glorified pangaea.

And unfortunately that's what you get at the next level of clumpedness. I'll play around with the settings a bit and see what I can get.

[SevenSpirits]

How about this as a base?

[Mardoc]

That looks much better to me - still enough water that you can build a strategy around it, and forgetting about it could let you be surprised, but no longer Maksim's One True Strategy.

[Maksim]

That looks fun!

Quite tempting to go for a natural resource and lair spread on this map - with horizontal wrapping, there are no edges, and plenty of space to expand into. As long as everyone's got a grain food resource or a couple of floodplains (or seaside for Lanun, I guess ), they should do alright.

[SevenSpirits]

Take 2, starting positions.

Perpentach


Varn Gosam


Arendel


Flauros


Mahala


Hannah


Beeri Bawl


I avoided giving anyone a jungle start this time, which meant a 4/3 split in the north/south. The north has a bit more land, the northern players are a bit closer to the equator, and the north has more unique features, to compensate. (Most unique features I placed, I placed near the equator.)

Everyone should have food resources or flood plains giving about 2 extra food over grassland tiles, and approximately one good luxury. Most of my editing was removing flood plains and gold from capitals and easy second cities, and moving a couple of the coppers. The rest of the map is pretty much as generated.

Again, comments would be helpful, and this time I expect to get to the part where I address specific ones. I think this map is solid enough that it can be edited instead of replaced.

Edit: attached WBsave.