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Is that character a variant? (I just love getting asked that in channel.) - Charis |
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[spoilers] Dragon Slayers and Warrior Knights, Oh my!
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(April 9th, 2013, 04:45)teleh Wrote: It's going to be fun seeing the plan come together.. er.. if it doesn't get scrapped at the start from difficult character picks. Well, I scrapped Elohim because aside from being good at cultural (which I may or may not even do, it really depends on how things are going mid-game) they have nothing I want to do since I've played them before. Grigori, Khazad and Hippus seem like a good mix of fun civs to me. (April 9th, 2013, 04:45)teleh Wrote: Nice 'official' threads I'd say, "Make that two of us," but I think I have a handle on FfH mechanics, at least. I'm here to offer comments which may or may not be good, though. I have to admit I'm hoping you don't end up with Hippus... though it might be interesting to compare two different people playing Rohanna. What's your take on the most effective way to make use of the Grigori Adventurer mechanic? I always want to go for archmages, because you can get a bunch of hero archmages, but it generally felt like that ended up with adventurers sitting home more than anything. (I similarly wish I could figure out a good way to use Luonnotar because those units look cool, but they seem really hard to get, except possibly by promoting straight from an adventurer.) (April 9th, 2013, 14:56)Ranamar Wrote: I'd say, "Make that two of us," but I think I have a handle on FfH mechanics, at least. I'm here to offer comments which may or may not be good, though. Glad to have you.  (April 9th, 2013, 14:56)Ranamar Wrote: What's your take on the most effective way to make use of the Grigori Adventurer mechanic? I always want to go for archmages, because you can get a bunch of hero archmages, but it generally felt like that ended up with adventurers sitting home more than anything. (I similarly wish I could figure out a good way to use Luonnotar because those units look cool, but they seem really hard to get, except possibly by promoting straight from an adventurer.) Well, I haven't actually used Adventurers extensively but I'll give it a shot. Adventurers are at their best early-mid game, falling off late unless you make them archmages. A heroic warrior makes barbs a little easier to handle and a heroic axe is a painful spearhead of a rush. Heroic archmages are kinda cool since you can guarantee you'll have units that are eligible (if you can wait the 26 turns), however you need Strength of Will which can take a while unless you beeline sorcery, bulb Arcane Lore with 3 GS (via Ardor perhaps?) and ToD Strength of Will. After that, pick a Tier3 summon and your good to go (Twincast too if you want, but 6 non-casting promotions takes a long time to get even for a adventurers and IMO is not worth the effort if your not Keelyn). It's tempting to go down this path, but I've played enough games that focus on the arcane path already and want to try something else. Luonnotar's are kinda nifty late game units, being one of the few Magic Immune units in the game, and in EitB you can promote a adventurer there via a medic, but Magic Immunity only helps you on the defense against certain civs and archmages bring the pain a lot quicker. Might be useful for stack defense though. What am I going to do with adventurers? It's tempting to rush someone with them, I may consider that. They guarantee FotT for me if I don't delay Warfare, which I don't plan on doing. Aside from that, I'm not really going to focus on them, instead using all of Grigori's focus on Great People to spit out bards ASAP.  (April 9th, 2013, 18:23)WarriorKnight Wrote:(April 9th, 2013, 14:56)Ranamar Wrote: I'd say, "Make that two of us," but I think I have a handle on FfH mechanics, at least. I'm here to offer comments which may or may not be good, though. Luonnotars really aren't worth it, IMO, unless you're doing the Archmage thing, since they show up at the same tech, and that tech is a very large investment to get to. (Worse, Pass Through The Ether, which is made available at the same time as Strength of Will is higher on the GSci list...) I was half-expecting you to say you were just going to go push for great people of some sort. You'll still be guaranteed an adventurer or two before you get your specialist economy up and running, and then you run it like a completely generic adaptive civ that happens to ignore the divine tree. So, Malakim, but not.  Getting Adventurer Points is a pain, tbh, because you can't get more than a few in any given city, so you're mostly ignoring your Philosophical bonus, and you kinda need to beeline Currency for the Adventurer's Guild if you really want to crank them out. To be fair, the guild is a reasonably nice building, depending on how much you value bonus starting xp, but getting there is still quite the investment... and it's up a completely different tech tree. Meanwhile, not only is popping Ardor kind of unreliable, but bulbing to SoW is going to require you to trade in a bunch of your adventurers for getting there faster. In any event, you're going to be lucky if you have five adventurers, in my experience. On the bright side, by the time you get up to archmages, your first adventurer or two, if you haven't needed to use them, will probably be almost at 100 xp, and you can *then* switch to Arcane to give them Potency and Mobility. So, yeah, something to remember: when you promote an Adventurer to one of the regular line units, you get the Agg/Rai/Arc/Spi (not that Spi matters for you) relevant promotions... but once you've done that, if you adapt away, you don't get a new one on the next upgrade, although you keep the old one.
So, since I have no idea who to put as my 3rd leader (with Cassiel 1st and Arturus 2nd), I'll let my ded-lurkers decide. Which one out of Rhoanna/Capria/Thessalonica/Cardith should I put as my third?
April 11th, 2013, 23:52
(This post was last modified: April 11th, 2013, 23:53 by WarriorKnight.)
I've been thinking, perhaps aiming for a culture victory t0 isn't the best idea. Obviously it would be cool to do, but the Grigori are quite flexible at anything non-divine so I do have to keep my options open. Some ideas:
1. Culture - tech Feud, tech/bulb merc, build HoK, Dream theatre and maybe Lyre, go full on culture rush and win at worst roughly 30t after that. Works best if isolated, as with diplo on it won't be hard to arrange a dogpile. Most likely needs a decent defense strategy as well, which requires additional military techs. Hmmmm, perhaps this isn't the right thing to go for after all except in specific circumstances. 2. Horses - tech Warhorses, build RotNK and own everyone with heroic knights/high exp HA's/Chariot's. Even better if I switch to Raiders. Less tech investment required (Stirrups/Warhorses vs Taxation/Maths/Merc) but no convenient exit strategy unless I conquer the world or simultaneously do culture. Sounds like quite a bit of fun though, and this works quite well with a early rush, which is another strategy I'm considering. 3. Archmages - rush to Strength of Will via method described previously (research/bulb? sorcery, research/bulb arcane lore, ToD SoW), own with early heroic archmages, exit strategy via ToM. Takes quite a while to get everything, but is probably the strongest plan overall. I'm not looking to accomplish this strategy, but its strong enough to probably happen regardless. 4. Nothing else really - I suppose Altar could be lolz, but that almost certainly requires a huge amount of tech/Prophet investment in stuff that I gain very little from, so very unlikely. Nothing else achieves domination/conquest as well as strategy 2 & 3. These are all late game strategies though, it's far more likely that good play in early-mid game will be enough for someone (hopefully me) to take enough of a lead to win.
Expansive/Raiders/Barbarian Clowns.
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I'll think about it.
