Bah. That's an icosahedron . Anybody can make those.
(April 11th, 2013, 14:44)Mardoc Wrote: Huh. I could have sworn that Hippus and Amurites had won, but I can't find a counterexample. I like them too!
Doesn't surprise me that the Amurites haven't won. Seems like a lot of these games are decided early, even when they aren't won early. The Hippus is a bigger surprise, especially since they've been in so many games by now.
Quote:I'd suggest Rhoanna instead of Tasunke, especially in a 6-player, but we could make either work. I don't think the strong period in XXI was due to the centaurs, I think it was due to the economic powerhouse of early game Kurios on a lush map.
It was a lot of things. The map, the Kurios, the three (!) early great people. But the ability to build 4-move, 4-strength, shock-promoted units early in the game was also pretty big. And Tasunke can do that too, without even needing to adopt conquest.
Quote:But really, it's the Amurites that seem exciting. Particularly in a quick-start game, since it's their early game that's weak.
Nah, one arcane civ at a time is plenty.
Quote:Edit: Also, since we're apparently looking at Settler Huge with our new mapmaking volunteer, perhaps Expansive is the trait we want
No doubt Ichabod has been swayed by my honeyed words, and he's working on a smallish, hilly map replete with precious, precious gold.
(April 11th, 2013, 23:53)HidingKneel Wrote: It was a lot of things. The map, the Kurios, the three (!) early great people. But the ability to build 4-move, 4-strength, shock-promoted units early in the game was also pretty big. And Tasunke can do that too, without even needing to adopt conquest.
Which is good, seeing as you don't get 3 XP from Conquest anymore .
Quote:Nah, one arcane civ at a time is plenty.
Fair enough.
So it's something like this?
Khazad (Arturus, please!)
Hippus (I still prefer Rhoanna, but I guess I can see a case for Tasunke. As long as you attack #2 instead of #6, this time).
Sheaim (Averax?)
(April 12th, 2013, 06:02)Mardoc Wrote: So it's something like this?
Khazad (Arturus, please!)
Hippus (I still prefer Rhoanna, but I guess I can see a case for Tasunke. As long as you attack #2 instead of #6, this time).
Sheaim (Averax?)
I like Khazad and Sheaim as our top picks; I think those will be the most fun to play thematically.
If we somehow miss both (which I guess could have happened to me if I'd signed on for XXVII!), I like Bannor.
Because it will mean somebody else has the Sheaim, and we must crusade to save the world! hammer
Either of the Hippus leaders sound good also, from the perspective of wanting a strong pick and a fun game. But I'm not sure what kind of "extra goal" we could shoot for, on top of trampling our opponents.
As for leaders... do I understand right that Kandros is Agg/Fin and Arturus is Ind/Org, just like in base FFH? I could be down with either of those. I'd like to sandbox the start before deciding. If we're serious about prioritizing our vaults we could settle that shade as a merchant. I doubt it would be optimal play, but it would mean that Fin is stronger than usual. Not sure if it would make a bigger difference than Ind-boosted worker production.
With the Sheaim, I think I could also have fun with any of the three leaders. But if we're aiming to break the world in the midgame, Averax makes the most sense. He's also got the best traits for the early game (barbarian science penalty hurts, but the ability to run an extended farmer's gambit ought to let us make up for it).
(April 12th, 2013, 09:02)HidingKneel Wrote: As for leaders... do I understand right that Kandros is Agg/Fin and Arturus is Ind/Org, just like in base FFH?
Yes, now. Arturus was Fin/Org in an earlier version.
I think Org is likely to pay as much as Fin by the time we're running serious cash, but I could be wrong. You've a point about a Merchant shade being RP-appropriate .
Quote:With the Sheaim, I think I could also have fun with any of the three leaders. But if we're aiming to break the world in the midgame, Averax makes the most sense. He's also got the best traits for the early game (barbarian science penalty hurts, but the ability to run an extended farmer's gambit ought to let us make up for it).
Barbarian science hurts a lot. But I suppose it might not hurt quite as badly if you're not also stockpiling lots of gold to upgrade warriors into PZ's, and then getting them killed by the Ents.
(April 12th, 2013, 09:13)Mardoc Wrote: I think Org is likely to pay as much as Fin by the time we're running serious cash, but I could be wrong. You've a point about a Merchant shade being RP-appropriate .
My thinking would be that Org wouldn't really kick in until the game was already half-over (especially if we're keeping our vaults topped up and therefore expanding slowly). But the effect of Fin would be pretty small too, early on. Merchant shade is only +6gpt, which Fin would round up to +7gpt.
For Arturus it's the Ind trait that would excite me more. Helps us with workers immediately. Cheap dwarven forges! The downside is that I will be even likely than usual to want to chase useless wonders .
Quote:Barbarian science hurts a lot. But I suppose it might not hurt quite as badly if you're not also stockpiling lots of gold to upgrade warriors into PZ's, and then getting them killed by the Ents.
IIRC you went for a pretty hard beeline to Bronzeworking, right? That's pretty much a mandatory early tech for the Sheaim (especially Averax), but if we're not actually trying to rush someone we could be more leisurely about it.
From what Ichabod was describing in the tech thread, it sounds like we're going to be getting incredibly nice starts. Now, does that make a Mysticism first opening a really good idea (because there are tiles worth working even before we improve them!) or a really bad idea (because we need the worker techs to improve our tiles ASAP!)? That's another question for a sandbox...
I'd like to build a sandbox for this game. Usually I do this by starting a SP game and opening worldbuilder. But in this case, I'd like to be able to try out different civs/leaders without needing to redo the map every time. How do I go about it?
Bah. That's an icosahedron . Anybody can make those.
Nooooo! I just assumed that the title was right.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(April 12th, 2013, 14:24)HidingKneel Wrote: My thinking would be that Org wouldn't really kick in until the game was already half-over (especially if we're keeping our vaults topped up and therefore expanding slowly). But the effect of Fin would be pretty small too, early on. Merchant shade is only +6gpt, which Fin would round up to +7gpt.
For Arturus it's the Ind trait that would excite me more. Helps us with workers immediately. Cheap dwarven forges! The downside is that I will be even likely than usual to want to chase useless wonders .
It seems no contest to me. Agg/Fin gives its benefits without requiring hammers, true, but hammers are the one thing we ought to have plenty of if we're playing to theme. The CI can be approximated by the Command Posts, gold bonus by civic reduction, markets/moneychangers by Courthouse/Lighthouse - and then we have cheap workers and wonders and forges on top.
Main downside is that it takes longer for all the bonuses to kick in. And, yes, that we might burn some of those saved hammers on excess wonders .
Quote:IIRC you went for a pretty hard beeline to Bronzeworking, right? That's pretty much a mandatory early tech for the Sheaim (especially Averax), but if we're not actually trying to rush someone we could be more leisurely about it.
Pretty much. I picked up Agriculture, and Exploration, but I think it was all BW besides that.
Quote:From what Ichabod was describing in the tech thread, it sounds like we're going to be getting incredibly nice starts. Now, does that make a Mysticism first opening a really good idea (because there are tiles worth working even before we improve them!) or a really bad idea (because we need the worker techs to improve our tiles ASAP!)? That's another question for a sandbox...
. Anybody can make those.
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