Is that character a variant? (I just love getting asked that in channel.) - Charis
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Realms Beyond Forum     Gaming     Civ Game Reporting     Completed Games     Completed Civ 4 Pitboss     Pitboss 47     [spoilers] AT makes a funny thread title

 
[spoilers] AT makes a funny thread title

#11
October 7th, 2019, 22:20
Merovech Offline
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Krill's PB46 thread has a lot of good thoughts in it, especially the first few pages before GermanJoey and him start spending dozens of posts tweaking each turn's micro and being super hyperbolic about everything. I mean, that second part is also useful to read, just in a different way.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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#12
October 8th, 2019, 06:49
Commodore Offline
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The fog is a lie.
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If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.

I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
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#13
October 8th, 2019, 08:24
AutomatedTeller Offline
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Huh. 6 people on a small world. that's a little crowded.

The start is almost certainly SIP, with a 3-hammer cap.

Also, I'm the first pick!!! better get thinking.

I have to admit, there is a part of me that wants to pick random leader/civ, just so I read what Krill writes about the pick wink

This start screams expansive - get the first worker out fast and the first workboat. But if everyone goes expansive (it's hard to believe that I'm the only one with a 3 hammer start tile), then expansive is socialist.
Completed:  PBEM 34g (W), 36 , 35 , 5o, 34s, 5p, 42, 48 and PB 9, 18, 27, 57

Current:  PB 52.  Boudicca of Maya
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#14
October 8th, 2019, 08:58
AutomatedTeller Offline
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My vague thoughts:

Pregame, I had been thinking to pick a philo civ and do a bunch of priest bulbs for techs like Theocracy, CoL and Civil Service. I'm not tied to that, though.

Egypt or Arabia would help with that. Stonehenge would help with that, too.

I figure an expansion trait and a economic trait would be good. Expansion traits would Imp, exp, protective, creative and aggressive (because of the easy border pops) Economic traits would be financial, philo, organized, charismatic. Dunno what industrious and spiritual would be, under that.

I've done protective a lot, so I definitely don't want that.

I am pretty sure I've never done aggressive, so that's a possibility. Aggressive and Egypt is a little counter synergistic.

the start screams expansive, though. Fast worker, fast workboat, cheap harbor and market in a great coastal bureau cap.

I've also never done industrious - there is no industrious/philo leader, so if I do that, the bulb thing doesn't work.
Completed:  PBEM 34g (W), 36 , 35 , 5o, 34s, 5p, 42, 48 and PB 9, 18, 27, 57

Current:  PB 52.  Boudicca of Maya
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#15
October 8th, 2019, 12:38
AutomatedTeller Offline
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So, the most important information ever about what my first pick should be is that these are the traits I've played in PBEM/PBs before:

Fin 4
Exp 3
Phil 2
Charismatic 2
Spi 1
Org 1
Pro 1
Creative 1
Imp 1
Ind 0
Agg 0

Clearly, I cannot play Fin or Exp. I think I should stay away from Phil, since I even played that in a Krill mod, with the 150% bonus (and I was rome, with an extra bonus). Charismatic I played twice, though both times as Hannibal (the 2nd time was a random pick)

I've played as Native America (twice), Byzantium, Maya, Egypt, HRE, Rome and Mongolia, so I kind of want to stay away from them.

I definitely want at least either Agg or Ind. Maybe Stalin - Ind and Agg combine to drive down costs a lot - half price raxes that are buildable without a tech solves the culture issue. Fail gold from failed wonder builds will help a lot, too.

It won't start fast, but it will expand steadily and will hold an advantage over most early - since I'll build a ton of barracks, I'll have well promoted units.
Completed:  PBEM 34g (W), 36 , 35 , 5o, 34s, 5p, 42, 48 and PB 9, 18, 27, 57

Current:  PB 52.  Boudicca of Maya
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#16
October 8th, 2019, 18:14
Merovech Offline
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I think that if you want IND, and don't want EXP/IND Bismarck, then it's probably worth risking going civ first unless you have no civ preference. With five other players, I would wager that Bismarck is the only IND leader selected (because he can choose one of Stonehenge/Oracle/GLH and almost guarantee it). And I don't think that picking any other IND leader de-incitivises the Bismarck pick.

The risk is that Bismarck and another IND leader (HC? FDR? The aforementioned Stalin?) both get picked, which might require a pivot, though HC in particular is a slow starter.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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#17
October 8th, 2019, 18:35
Merovech Offline
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Pangaea means weaker GLH, but it still might be interesting to go FDR, build the GLH, and use that plus a few scientists post-library to get either a medium odds GM for currency bulb or a fallback of the wanted-anyway Academy. FDR of Inca especially strikes me as solid, as Inca helps with the REX that FDR + GLH doesn't do super well.

 Alternatively, for interesting civs on the wheel if you go Stalin (or other IND first). [Note that I'm not looking to hard at starting techs, because they are better balanced than in BTS and we can build workboats without fishing if it's our second researched tech, but we do want to make sure that we can get that 5/1/0 wheat tile online immediately and have other things for our worker to do afterward] 

Ethiopia - Stonehenge for every unit having sentry plus a merchant spot for an even earlier and guaranteed currency bulb. Doesn't synergize with half-priced barracks, though, unless only building one monument. If not interested in stonehenge, interesting to attempt to Oracle MC or monarchy while bulbing currency. Maybe can get a good tech lead that way if able to still expand sufficiently
. 
Babylon - All around solid 

India - Does the micro work with such a quickly produced worker (3h plant!!!)? If it does, a free happy in every city is really nice. 

Sumeria - See Babylon, probably a little weaker.

 Rome - Agg preats rock again in this version. Nothing really IND specific, but again maybe an oracle can help keep an economy that is spending a disproportionate amount of its production on military up to par with everyone else.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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#18
October 8th, 2019, 18:37 (This post was last modified: October 8th, 2019, 18:41 by Merovech.)
Merovech Offline
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Oh, btw, if everyone else has marble or stone on their starting tile, I suspect that means that they will de-prioritize IND. The resources matter less than in BTS, but they do slightly cut into the wonder-grabbing value.

And Inca shouldn't wheel, so if you want that, you probably need to first pick it. But even though it might be a little too good, which I think that it is, I do also think that there are a number of other really interesting civs that are not so much weaker as to be a handicapping.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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#19
October 8th, 2019, 19:15 (This post was last modified: October 8th, 2019, 19:19 by AutomatedTeller.)
AutomatedTeller Offline
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yeah, GLH isn't all that great on Pangea, and with only 1 extra trade route, it's not really great. If there are offshore islands, that's one thing, of course.

I'm not tied to industrious or aggressive - if I pick up inca, of course, aggressive seems pointless. as would protective and creative. Well, not pointless, but protective can't make the granary cheaper and part of the point of aggressive is cheap barrackes for culture and, of course creative.

At that point, it would be a combination of Ind, Imp, Org and Spi. I can get a leader out of that, of course. I guess I could do Charismatic, since both my charismatics were Hannibal. I think if I understood the mod better, I'd have a more informed choice, but I suspect that Inca makes a good choice.

Myst and agri means we can improve the wheat immediately and tech finishing. We can chase a religion at that point, if we want.

Inca is a pretty safe pick. Boring, but maybe boring is what I need to do wink Then we can see what others pick up. Certainly, if there is a run on Ind, I will want to ignore that.

You make a ton of great points. this is all great stuff!!
Completed:  PBEM 34g (W), 36 , 35 , 5o, 34s, 5p, 42, 48 and PB 9, 18, 27, 57

Current:  PB 52.  Boudicca of Maya
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#20
October 9th, 2019, 10:12 (This post was last modified: October 9th, 2019, 22:22 by AutomatedTeller.)
AutomatedTeller Offline
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Posts: 5,323
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Picks so far:

AutomatedTeller - someone of inca (terrace, Quecha)
Krill - someone of aztec (sword replacement, Sac Altar)
Ruff_Hi - someone of india (Harapan Granary, pike replacement)
Mr. Cairo - someone of Native America (Tracker, Totem Pole)
superdeath- Boudicca (Charismatic/Aggressive) of someone
GeneralKilCavalry - Pacal (Fin/Exp) of Carthage (Numidian/Cothon)
Completed:  PBEM 34g (W), 36 , 35 , 5o, 34s, 5p, 42, 48 and PB 9, 18, 27, 57

Current:  PB 52.  Boudicca of Maya
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