February 19th, 2012, 13:58
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
T 68 played.
Check unit orders and names for clues. 2 new workers in 2T (1T rick, 2T Newt w/o whip), both to C9. T72 will see C8 + C9 founded. Need IW to get C9 up, but can cottage until then. Worthless w/o IW.
I wanted the fort done faster, but won't kill the mining project to do it. I wanted one galley to the northern sea without having to build another one. We can whip hard (no single pop whips from this point forward in food rich cities) and regrow on units. We need more military for garrison, and our ability to have free units will rise with these new cities, if I understand that mechanic correctly. Not sure if we'll finish currency in 1T w/o binary, but we can juggle numbers next turn. Worst case is 2T currency, then repay kitties.
Sian is 1T from math.
February 20th, 2012, 15:00
Posts: 7,658
Threads: 31
Joined: Jun 2011
T70 - I didn't have time to take pictures, but the short version for this turn is that Currency came in when I ended turn. It came down to the last beaker  . We could have had more commerce to spare, but we double whipped a library at Jon Huntsman so it can regrow one population and then spend 12 turns generating a GS for an academy at Newt. Newt and Ron Paul are incubating cottages for Newt as fast as possible right now so that when we go to CS in a while we'll have more mature tiles to work in Bureaucracy. The fun bit for this turn is that we started an aqueduct in Rick Santorum. It looks like 4 turns to slow build the aqueduct, should have some nice overflow on T4 (off of 20 base hammers by then). Then we build the HG in 2 turns -- stone city will be settled (on the stone, connecting it), and the three 1 turn chops from our failed GLH attempt can be contributed for 60 hammers. So at 20 base, that's 20 hammers (plus whatever from overflow) on turn one, 80 hammers on turn 2. The only way we waste those chops is if Sian finishes the HG the same turn we do. Catwalk is not building the HG, he says.
We have a settler moving quickly to our C8 site, will settle it next turn, then workers can move in and hook up gems to raise our happy cap. We'll want to boost culture there ASAP to get control of the area, and we still need to slam down two more cities on the coasts down there to settle the border, but we're headed that way now. We need to keep up in city count, we have 8 right now I think, but Dazed has 10 and Sian and Slowwalk both have 9. Slowcheetah won the intrateam argument with Catwalk and prevailed recently, throwing down 4 cities over the last few turns. Their economy must hurt right now.
Our (secret) NAP with Dazed expired this turn so we are free to attack him next turn, or he can attack us. However, I want to renew the NAP with him so we can pursue an agenda against the two leaders. His idea is for me to go after Sian and have him go after Slowwalk, but I'm still advocating for a three way dogpile attack on Sian (me, dazed, and Slowwalk), with corresponding NAPs during the attack, followed by an immediate backstab against Slowwalk when we've finished with Sian. In the meta game it may not be wise to antagonize the top two teams, but if we do significant damage to them both it may be worth it. I want to raze a few of Sian's cities, Dazed just wants to pillage and harrass. But we agree (I believe!) that against Catwalk the goal would be to raze the Pyramids city, which was poorly placed in their second to front city, leaving it somewhat exposed. We could either wander through the tundra or burn down his front silver city with me and then head north to sack the 'mids. Either option would devastate Slowwalk's specialist economy, nevermind spoiling an engineer GP farm. We don't have an agreement on these proposed war scenarios, but I'm working on it. If I get time to post screen shots I will, but I wouldn't count on it tonight.
February 20th, 2012, 15:59
Posts: 4,831
Threads: 12
Joined: Jul 2010
spacetyrantxenu Wrote:It looks like 4 turns to slow build the aqueduct, should have some nice overflow on T4 (off of 20 base hammers by then). Then we build the HG in 2 turns -- stone city will be settled (on the stone, connecting it), and the three 1 turn chops from our failed GLH attempt can be contributed for 60 hammers. So at 20 base, that's 20 hammers (plus whatever from overflow) on turn one, 80 hammers on turn 2. The only way we waste those chops is if Sian finishes the HG the same turn we do.
If I got this right, you're going to build HG like this:
t1: 40h
t2: 160h (plus 1h in loose change)
In that case, you'll see upon opening t2 save if the Gardens has fallen. If it hasn't, you'll see it finish and appear in your city upon EOT t2. One of the benefits of sequential turns. 
February 20th, 2012, 16:16
Posts: 7,658
Threads: 31
Joined: Jun 2011
Nice catch, Ceil. So it would be the case that if Sian has completed the HG when I open the save to begin my second turn building it, I'll get a bit of fail gold and tell my workers to get away from those trees again!  I hope we don't get wonder sniped again. 
February 20th, 2012, 17:00
(This post was last modified: February 20th, 2012, 17:11 by Boldly Going Nowhere.)
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
spacetyrantxenu Wrote:T70 - I didn't have time to take pictures, but the short version for this turn is that Currency came in when I ended turn. It came down to the last beaker . We could have had more commerce to spare, but we double whipped a library at Jon Huntsman so it can regrow one population and then spend 12 turns generating a GS for an academy at Newt. Newt and Ron Paul are incubating cottages for Newt as fast as possible right now so that when we go to CS in a while we'll have more mature tiles to work in Bureaucracy. The fun bit for this turn is that we started an aqueduct in Rick Santorum. It looks like 4 turns to slow build the aqueduct, should have some nice overflow on T4 (off of 20 base hammers by then). Then we build the HG in 2 turns -- stone city will be settled (on the stone, connecting it), and the three 1 turn chops from our failed GLH attempt can be contributed for 60 hammers. So at 20 base, that's 20 hammers (plus whatever from overflow) on turn one, 80 hammers on turn 2. The only way we waste those chops is if Sian finishes the HG the same turn we do. Catwalk is not building the HG, he says.
We have a settler moving quickly to our C8 site, will settle it next turn, then workers can move in and hook up gems to raise our happy cap. We'll want to boost culture there ASAP to get control of the area, and we still need to slam down two more cities on the coasts down there to settle the border, but we're headed that way now. We need to keep up in city count, we have 8 right now I think, but Dazed has 10 and Sian and Slowwalk both have 9. Slowcheetah won the intrateam argument with Catwalk and prevailed recently, throwing down 4 cities over the last few turns. Their economy must hurt right now.
Our (secret) NAP with Dazed expired this turn so we are free to attack him next turn, or he can attack us. However, I want to renew the NAP with him so we can pursue an agenda against the two leaders. His idea is for me to go after Sian and have him go after Slowwalk, but I'm still advocating for a three way dogpile attack on Sian (me, dazed, and Slowwalk), with corresponding NAPs during the attack, followed by an immediate backstab against Slowwalk when we've finished with Sian. In the meta game it may not be wise to antagonize the top two teams, but if we do significant damage to them both it may be worth it. I want to raze a few of Sian's cities, Dazed just wants to pillage and harrass. But we agree (I believe!) that against Catwalk the goal would be to raze the Pyramids city, which was poorly placed in their second to front city, leaving it somewhat exposed. We could either wander through the tundra or burn down his front silver city with me and then head north to sack the 'mids. Either option would devastate Slowwalk's specialist economy, nevermind spoiling an engineer GP farm. We don't have an agreement on these proposed war scenarios, but I'm working on it. If I get time to post screen shots I will, but I wouldn't count on it tonight.
We'll need IW before hooking up gems. This is a landgrab until then. Maybe 4T for IW? Possibly more. Another 2 for Monotheism OR Bonus for the Hanging Gardens, let's call it 7T until we can mine the gems. This also depends on if we actually pay Catwalk back for Currency or if we can trade marble (and get a secret-treaty v. Sian) instead. I'm not blind to Kitties good position, or Dazed's once his economy is out of the toilet from over-expansion, but I still feel Sian is best positioned.
I'm all for razing cities, if it doesn't put us too far behind. As much as I would prefer to sack some wonders, or kill them off entirely, it may benefit us most economically to just farm his cottages for some cash.
February 20th, 2012, 17:20
Posts: 7,658
Threads: 31
Joined: Jun 2011
Number One, what is your price on a marble trade? Catwalk would need it for 5 turns to build MoM in his capital, or 8 turns to build it in his front city. I told him I'd loan it to him for 8 turns for the same price as 5 turns, ostensibly to support his effort to culturally crush Sian's silver city, but actually because it will be very nice if Dazed and I can raze his pyramid city and also burn down the MoM at the same time. The plan Catwalk floated to me was that he'd build an academy and the MoM where he already has the 'mids, which is his front city with Sian. The cultural pressure on Sian's tundra silver city would be high. I'm hoping Catwalk doesn't realize the threat that would place his tasty wonders under, though.
Anyway, about marble, I'd like a single lump sum payment if possible, not a per turn agreement that could be cancelled by war, etc.
February 20th, 2012, 19:15
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
Is there a generally agreed-upon value for resources? I'd rate strategic highest, then luxury/building. We owe 26, which is roughly a rounding error :neenernee.
For 8t of depriving us of a resource we otherwise wouldn't be using, how about an even 125g, forgiving the 26 we owe him. Is roughly 25g/turn for 5T too high? If he thinks so, he can have it in his front city for the low, low price of 18.875 gpt. (125+26)/8.
What do you think?
February 20th, 2012, 22:06
Posts: 7,658
Threads: 31
Joined: Jun 2011
Given the way they balked at my proposed cost of the Tundra Expeditionary Force sale (and were apparently very far apart on value), I think 25 gpt is way too high. I think for us to run 100% science last turn in the run up to Currency, we had what, a -35 to -40 deficit? At this stage of the game 25 gpt is a lot of moolah, especially if it comes without the courtesy of a REDACTED!. 
Maybe we can sell it at whatever the cost is for two turns of 100% research. Check next turn, how much do we actually lose @ 100% science? If it's somewhere between 70 gold and 80 for a 5 or 8 turn lease, they could probably agree to that. Keep in mind they've run their economy into the ground a bit recently and may not have much cash on hand for the trade.
February 21st, 2012, 08:35
Posts: 7,658
Threads: 31
Joined: Jun 2011
I realized this morning that we were at a 35 - 40 gold deficit when finishing Currency at 70% science. Our deficit at 100% is probably like 60 to 80 gpt. I chatted with Catwalk a bit this morning trying to get an agreement to sell marble to him for building MoM. He offered 50 gold total for an 8 turn deal. While he certainly gets a lot of value that way (double hammers on building the MoM, probably helping him steal it from Sian), I don't see anyone else lining up to pay us anything for it. I'd hesitate to make the offer to Sian because I don't think his golden ages need to be any longer (I'd rather Catwalk's not be longer, either, but as we don't have Calendar researched we can't really beat them to the wonder). So even if Catwalk gets the better of this deal, 50 gold is still a turn at 60% or 70% research for us, which helps us catch up a bit. It should let us research Monotheism, which will allow us to use OR. I have to figure out if two turns of anarchy (revolt to Hindu as state religion, revolt to OR -- Hindu is already in Rick Santorum where we're trying for HG, it's the Hindu holy city) will help us land the HG sooner or not -- will 2 turns of lost base hammer production be overcome by +25% hammers on the turn the chops come in? And will that get us the wonder 2 turns later or at the same time we would have without anarchy?) It appears we're in a race with Dazed for the HG, from what Catwalk says. Can he get it faster than 6 turns? I don't know.
I've emailed Dazed about renewing our NAP before I play this turn. It is T71 and he can attack me if he chooses. I'd prefer to work with him against the top dogs so I'm waiting to see his reply before playing our turn. If he comes back non-committal or declines the renewal, we need to build some power ASAP because I don't trust him to not come after us.
February 21st, 2012, 08:51
Posts: 7,658
Threads: 31
Joined: Jun 2011
To keep the thread spam going, Dazed just emailed me a reply agreeing to a NAP extension through T80. As this is an extension to an existing agreement, my understanding would be that the same terms apply as before. Neither of us can attack the other on T80 but both are free to do so on T81. We retain first strike opportunity via the turn order. 
This is good for us, it allows us to spend our hammers supporting growth over the next several turns. Even so, we need to build a bit of power as we haven't done much of that lately.
|
