[Spoilers] This Perfect Place

[Mr. Cairo]

So, now that I know how long it will take to get to some key techs, I have a more concrete plan. I've decided to scrap the chariot attack on Ecbatana, and go all-in on a proper attack with HAs and cats. HBR will come in 4 turns, Construction 4 turns after that. I need to maintain the element of surprise as much as I can, so I'm not going to suddenly start whipping multiple cities every turn. I've been pretty consistent with 1-pop whips every turn or two lately, and I'm going to continue along those lines, but whipping out units instead of granaries and monuments.

Any rough timeframe of attack?

<15 turns from now. Basically, up until I get HBR I'll be building axes, some chariots, and some spears. Once I get HBR it's all HAs, and once I get Construction, I swap into cats, and go as soon as I have enough of them in position, maybe around 8-10, I attack. Then I swap back to HA+some elephants. My only plans for the attack itself are what I outlines before, which only covers the first three turns of the invasion, and even then only the first turn concretely.

BTW REM, any reason why you asked about that island with the monster on it?

Just couldn't see what resource it was, and mildly interested as to what it could be (given there is no food available from the island)

Would this be total war, or some set objective and nothing else?

Well, I suppose I would be satisfied with taking the two border cities (Ecbatana and the one I can't see) and razing Persepolis. But given the opportunity, I will keep going, especially if BGN jumps in (dream scenario right now is Gawdzak attacking BGN 2 or 3 turns before I attack). Also, I doubt Gawdzak will be too happy about all this and peace at that point will likely be off the table.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

So, now that I know how long it will take to get to some key techs, I have a more concrete plan. I've decided to scrap the chariot attack on Ecbatana, and go all-in on a proper attack with HAs and cats. HBR will come in 4 turns, Construction 4 turns after that. I need to maintain the element of surprise as much as I can, so I'm not going to suddenly start whipping multiple cities every turn. I've been pretty consistent with 1-pop whips every turn or two lately, and I'm going to continue along those lines, but whipping out units instead of granaries and monuments.

Any rough timeframe of attack?

<15 turns from now. Basically, up until I get HBR I'll be building axes, some chariots, and some spears. Once I get HBR it's all HAs, and once I get Construction, I swap into cats, and go as soon as I have enough of them in position, maybe around 8-10, I attack. Then I swap back to HA+some elephants. My only plans for the attack itself are what I outlines before, which only covers the first three turns of the invasion, and even then only the first turn concretely.

BTW REM, any reason why you asked about that island with the monster on it?

Just couldn't see what resource it was, and mildly interested as to what it could be (given there is no food available from the island)

Would this be total war, or some set objective and nothing else?

Well, I suppose I would be satisfied with taking the two border cities (Ecbatana and the one I can't see) and razing Persepolis. But given the opportunity, I will keep going, especially if BGN jumps in (dream scenario right now is Gawdzak attacking BGN 2 or 3 turns before I attack). Also, I doubt Gawdzak will be too happy about all this and peace at that point will likely be off the table.

I think if it involves a planned cap raze you can safely assume no peace ever

[El Grillo]

Hear hear . Mr. Cairo, I look forward to watching your plans unfold.

[Mr. Cairo]

Hear hear . Mr. Cairo, I look forward to watching your plans unfold.

Thanks, me too.

Speaking of, I have accelerated the arrival of HBR. Last turn at 0% science put enough gold in my treasury to get HBR in 2 turns at 60% science. I have enough science multipliers to make running the slider at anything other than 100% inefficient, so I wont have as much overflow for Construction, but it wont make too much of a difference, and it gives me the opportunity to start HA production 1 turn sooner. I micro'd my cities to get maximum overflow going into those HAs. I thought about doing some whips, but I think I'm going to save those for when I actually attack.

My plan re: whipping is to grow my low-hammer newer cities to the cap asap (hammer cities already are at the cap), and keep focusing on growth in order to fill their food boxes. On the turn of the attack I 2-pop whip them, engineered for maximum overflow, then let them grow back and whip them again. I'll also do whips in my main hammer cities the turn I attack, whipping away grassland cottages, so I only lose commerce instead of hammers. Ideally, that would be commerce I can make up in the form of pillage gold capturing Gawdzak's cities.

[Mr. Cairo]

Gawdzak is planting a new city on/near my border. This can only be good, since he'll have to spread his units out to cover it. Also, note he's getting archery, and from what I can tell he's running just above break-even science slider (6 gold in treasury and 9 gold/t according to diplo screen). The question is whether he plans to go for HBR afterwards, or if he's going to go for more econ tech, or possibly the Aesthetics line to grab wonders. Either way, I am committed to this attack, if I do nothing he'll just get too far ahead for me to ever catch up.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

That's one hell of an extended border for chaps who have warred this often! You should be able to break through somewhere.

[Mr. Cairo]

That's one hell of an extended border for chaps who have warred this often! You should be able to break through somewhere.

The interesting thing is that the placement of the mountains, the lake tile, and the oasis tile, restricts potential lines of attack, in either direction. I don't know if this was meant to be the border between us when the map was made, but it certainly makes for an interesting one.

Where that city goes won't really change my plans since it will be largely insignificant, but the fact that he is settling there is further evidence that he is not thinking of the possibility of a determined attack by me. I hope.

[Mr. Cairo]

Once again I forgot to check the event log last turn, so I missed BGN dow on BRick, as well as Gawdzak's golden age.

Re: BGN attacking BRick, I hope that this is a city snipe like last time, and not BGN deciding to eat a weaker neighbor to get ahead. I can't eat a weaker neighbor, I can only attack the game leader in an attempt to bring him down before he gets to the point of being able to eat me. The possibility of BGN jumping in against Gawdzak would be a huge bonus for my attack, but if BGN is busy with BRick, then it's not likely.

Re: Gawdzak's GA, obviously not ideal, but it does give me a timetable for the attack. We are now T-9 7 turns. I am going to attack the turn after the GA finishes. Here's hoping that he's going to use his GA to get more wonders, instead of units.

If Gawdzak does use this GA to power up to a point where I can't attack him, then I may have to switch plans and go for an invasion of Adrien. It's expand or die time, and I really only have two options, and neither are particularly appealing. An attack against the game leader who just popped a GA, or an amphibious invasion in the era of galleys.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Once again I forgot to check the event log last turn, so I missed BGN dow on BRick, as well as Gawdzak's golden age.

Re: BGN attacking BRick, I hope that this is a city snipe like last time, and not BGN deciding to eat a weaker neighbor to get ahead. I can't eat a weaker neighbor, I can only attack the game leader in an attempt to bring him down before he gets to the point of being able to eat me. The possibility of BGN jumping in against Gawdzak would be a huge bonus for my attack, but if BGN is busy with BRick, then it's not likely.

Re: Gawdzak's GA, obviously not ideal, but it does give me a timetable for the attack. We are now T-9 turns. I am going to attack the turn after the GA finishes. Here's hoping that he's going to use his GA to get more wonders, instead of units.

If Gawdzak does use this GA to power up to a point where I can't attack him, then I may have to switch plans and go for an invasion of Adrien. It's expand or die time, and I really only have two options, and neither are particularly appealing. An attack against the game leader who just popped a GA, or an amphibious invasion in the era of galleys.

Wishing you had razed their big coastal city now?

[Mr. Cairo]

Wishing you had razed their big coastal city now?

No. At the time I was not prepared for a long conflict, which is what would have occurred had I razed that city. Also, in the event I do invade them, I'd want to keep that city anyway.